demand for welders

By Kix

Date 11-06-2007 03:52

Yes there is a demand for welders and especially around here in Wisconsin. They're worried that in 2010 there will be a shortage of around 200,000 welders and by 2014 it's going to be around 400,000 in the U.S. Don't quote me down to the exact number here, but it's something close to this figure and date. High schools here in the states just aren't pushing the trades hard enough and it is really starting to show. I could be persuaded to get back under the hood for the right price and who knows it might come about some day if the shortage gets bad enough. I guess the shortage could play out in either direction for the amount of pay a welder would receive. If the shortage gets to bad then potentially they could bring guys in from other countries that will work for less money and that would bring the scale down everywhere. As for what line of work should you go into is up to you man. You can ask anything about any kind of welding job in here and someone can share there experiences. I'm a sucker for a good pipe fitting job.;-)

By swsweld (****)

Date 11-06-2007 05:21

quote "If the shortage gets too bad then potentially they could bring guys in from other countries that will work for less money and that would bring the scale down everywhere."
Here in the southeast that has been happening for a decade. Wages are frozen. My state is one of the easiest to get a drivers license. That's a big draw. Many jobs we have been on have a ratio of 80/20. 80% non-English speaking and 20% that speak English. The vast majority are illegal immigrants that do the work that Americans won't do. You know; weld, iron workers, plummer, sheet rock, masons, electrician. etc. I'm being sarcastic of course. It's like I'm the foreigner. It's frustrating trying to work in that environment. Safety is a huge problem. Coordination is another. The false documents provided to the hiring companies are enough to satisfy them. When craftsmen were becoming few and far between the imaginary gate was opened and the need was met with cheaper less experienced, less skilled workers. Some of the bosses treat them poorly, work them unsafely and like borrowed mules, knowing that they will not say much or nothing at all fearing deportation. A portion of these are good workers and good people, the other portion are not. In ten years the industry has drastically changed here. The military bases and nuclear plants do background checks but most other work sites are wide open. This was a G rated rant. The supply and demand thing was looking very good for the welder here about 10 years ago. Now to make the big money you will need to travel to get it.

By KSellon (****)

Date 11-06-2007 14:46

I have had welders tell me that in Houston they are paying 18 an hr for a rig welder, because of the availablilty of cheap labor. But now its bitting them in the butt, because things are cracking and not passing inspect. The Houston companies are screaming to get the good welders back, but still don't want to pay the money. Is there any truth to this?

By Kix

Date 11-06-2007 15:40

(QUALITY) Is the one thing that could keep our american welder wages high in the future(QUALITY). If you are working on a project that doesn't require the best or good quality then you can forget about a decent wage. Hopefully the contractors keep up the QA and QC on these future projects and don't try and cut any corners.

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 11-06-2007 21:23

KSellon.

If there is a rig welder out there desperate enough to use his own equipment for $18.00 an hour, I hope he catches bone cancer. I hope the employers who hire a rig for 18.00 per hour get remembered as heartless exploiters during the next communist revolution, then die after a good long bout of bone cancer.

By johnnyh (***)

Date 11-06-2007 22:16

Come on now

By KSellon (****)

Date 11-06-2007 22:40

I would hope not, thats why so many have come north. Leaving the 18.00 an hr to the border runners, with Bobcat welders

By dobsalot (**)

Date 11-07-2007 00:17

Totally agree! My company is hiring anyone with a rig and if they can't certify they just make structural welders out of them, pay them 20 an hour for the welder and rig, then charge 50+ to the gas co. that we work for. I see a lot of poor quality workmanship. Sometimes I am the only one on the the crew of 8 that can't speaky espanola. Lots of good people don't get me wrong but you gotta communicate!

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 11-07-2007 03:03

Company I am working for cannot get decent singlehand for 22.50 with full benefits in Houston. I have not heared about 18 hour rig hands in years. Somebody is filling someone with po po.

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 11-07-2007 03:21

I sure hope so. I don't mind 18.00 per hour for the man, but man and machine ----!!!???? Bone Cancer has no palliative.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 11-12-2007 03:14

For the first time ever: I completly agree whole heartedly with Joseph P. Kane.

For the last couple years I have had to bulldoze my way through the aftermath that someone with a crappy welder in their crappy truck leaves behind for me to fix,(or not fix). They are willing to do it cheaper than the professional. Because they are NOT professionals. These guys are either mentally retarded, or just don't give a damn that for the rest of their natural born lives they could be held accountable for the horrific, sloppy work they do. These are people that have no couth, no conscience, or no smarts.

Everytime I do a wellhead weld on, I never take any chances. For the rest of my natural born life, I am responsible and so is my insurance. I have been on jobs where I have to do a casing cut - off and a completely new wellhead because some jackass put the wellhead on with 5p.......are you kidding me? It's true, people are throwing a welder in the back of their pickups and doing business as "welders"!

The worst part of it is : some company men actually hire these idiots because they are "cheaper"............

So many times

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 11-12-2007 07:05

5P On a well head you're joking right I'll admit when i 1st started in the oil patch i was as dumb as they come but i had a good teacher and when it came time for my first head he said absolutely no 5p not even a root pass do it all 7018 and at least 5 passes thats the way i still do them today and from my very first head to present i have never had a head leak not ever i know it sounds like i'm bragging a bit but it's the gods honest truth and now i'm back at the feed lot doing repairs where i left when i went into the patch so it is true you do always return back to where you started from and i got to go back there cause i give a fair days work for a fair days wage it's higher now of course

By Sourdough (****)

Date 11-13-2007 00:20

ROCK ON!!!!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 11-07-2007 01:01

4 years of college seems a bit much to become a welder . The demand for welders seems high and I am pretty sure the same can be said for good industrial engineers. If you truly want to weld, I would suggest doing a little bit of all of it. All of the various areas in which welding is used can be interesting to some extent. Shop work will pay less than field work. Organized labor typically has higher wages however I have seen guys testing in the last month for jobs paying $32.00 hr and $80.00 perdiem.

If you have the opportunity to go to school, GO TO SCHOOL! You may be able to find some welding jobs on nights or weekends in which you can increase your skill and make a little $$.

Welding is a great career. Like all things to do for a living, its best if you like it!

By kelly_b (*)

Date 11-09-2007 04:40

Geez it really depends on where you are. Where I am, if you know the difference between a 3/8" and 1/2" driver, you're hired. Then if you know how to weld, you're literally god. Our economy is purely oil & gas and the industry is strong so the demand for all trades people, especially welders are very high with very lucrative salaries. You're looking around $80k a year or more.

By Kix

Date 11-09-2007 13:23

Man where do you live? Is the cost of living through the roof there or is it pretty reasonable? 80k a year for a welder with overtime included into that # or not included? 80k is some good money.

By jarsanb (***)

Date 11-09-2007 14:05

Hi Kix, I'm in Mich. and deal with many of the same guys and U.A. that you do in Wisc. Our company employed welders make 80K at the entry level. Many are over 100K/yr with a couple over 120K. Yes, some overtime is necessary to break the 100K but not nearly as much as you might be thinking. This does not include rig pay - we supply the rigs. Obviously benefits are supplied as well with 401k and a seperate pension on top of the 80k - 120k. No out of pocket on the benefits as of yet. Last contract was last year, so they'll be set there for awhile. The guys are scheduled 40hrs a week. Someone needs to be "on-call" for emergency situations - all the time. So the welders will rotate who this will be at each headquarters. It's an additional 300 a week and if you actually get a call out - then you're paid on top of that. Next day rest period comes into play - which you are also paid for. Doesnt take much to get the cash. Double time for any Sunday work or Sat. work that comes in after 6 pm. Cost of living has to be very similar to what you are familiar with I would think.

By Cole Welding (**)

Date 11-09-2007 15:28

what does your company do???? they dont pay like that in texas

By jarsanb (***)

Date 11-09-2007 15:59

They do somewhere down there I'm sure. Public utility. Natural gas pipeline and electric generation/distribution. Two diff. groups, same ownership/management and union. 8000 employees about 6 millions total costomers I believe. Some of those are duplicates (1 person could equal two accounts - 1 gas & 1 elec.)

By awspartb (***)

Date 11-10-2007 20:46

Go to a trade union and take the apprenticeship program. Boilermakers in the Northeast start at $17.00 + an hour (65% of Journyman wages) plus pension, annuity and health benefits. You go up 5% every six months until you hit full rate. Full rate is anywhere from $28.00 to $38.00 an hour depending on what jurisdiction you are working in. Anything over 8 hours is time and a half, Saturday is always time and a half and Sundays & Holidays are always double time. Overtime is what all the jobs are and 40 hour a week jobs are rare.

It's hot and dirty work and not for everyone. Nepotism is rampant and sad to say drug, alchohol and legal troubles of the members are the norm. If you can look past this and keep clean, you can make huge money. Often $80,000 to $100,000 a year. You can also take time off and get unemployment when you get burned out. It will make you an old man fast so get in young and move on to something else. Try and stay away from the losers, the substance problems and avoid the politics.

FWIW

By cadillac1 Date 11-11-2007 04:17

Thanks for the huge response everyone. Would anyone else recommend the trade union apprenticeship program? If everything goes well I should graduate in 3.5 years then spend my last semester getting certified. A couple friends of mine went straight to welding school out of high school and I wanted to also but my folks wouldnt have it. I dont mind it so much but I'd love to prove them wrong and become a successful welder. thanks for the info

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 11-11-2007 04:51

I am a firm beliver in apprenticeship programs. I served a tool & die maker apprenticeship and worked in that field for 10 years after I became a journyman. At the end of My 4 year apprenticeship I had as much money in savings as My friends who went to college had in debt. If You want to be an industrial engineer, stay with that program, but if You want to weld, go with the apprenticeship. Heed the advice in the last line of awspartb's post.

By awspartb (***)

Date 11-11-2007 09:19 Edited 11-11-2007 09:54

I worked with an Industrial Engineer who was very young. 22 years old and just graduated from college. He wanted to finish the Boilermakers Apprentice Program so he could understand what it is like on the real end of the work. So figure 4 years for the college degree and four years for the apprentice program. You'll be 26 or so years old, you'll have made more money as an apprentice than most of your graduate pals have made and you'll be the smartest guy in the trade. This guy I know did this 7 years ago and he's making big money today as he was a real go getter.

An engineer with real world work experience is as rare as a white buffalo. You'd be in high demand. Get a CWI also while you're at it.
Some NDT training and experience would be wise also. Take this from a welder who's in his early 40's and has made all the mistakes you can make in the trade. If only the internet was around in 1985.........

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-11-2007 13:27

Yes Yes Yes to apprenticeship.

Tech collage program grads can have a bit of a leg up competing for apprenticeship slots but if you can get in now.... let me encourage you to look at it very seriously.

That apprenticeship includes school, work that pays better than any non union entry level job and you work under journymen who will teach you things a school just doesn't have the space or bredth to teach. When you finish you can land a job with top pay in any city in the country... or travel overseas it thats your cup of tea.

The welders that have the greatest depth of experience are often the ones who have served a classic apprenticeship. These things can all be learned without one... But your chances are much better with that apprenticeship.

By makeithot (***)

Date 11-11-2007 18:43

Lawrence, I could not agree more the traditional apprenticeship seems to be a thing of the past, hats off to all that choose this venue for training.

By jarsanb (***)

Date 11-12-2007 16:04

I should clear this up. "Entry level" does not mean a "new" employee. We do not hire off the street traditionally to fill these positions. Usually they are filled by employees with 15 - 20 years of experience within the union (UWUA). A seasoned employee with 20 years in but new to welding is still classified as "entry level" in the welding dept.

By Thantos Date 11-12-2007 17:27

Hey all,
I am new to this forum and here is my 2 cents worth. I would highly recommend a Union Apprenticeship in welding. I am a Steamfitter/Welder in a Local Union in California and have made an excellent living for myself and my family. Our current Journeyman's labor rate is about $44.00 an hour on the check, with a 401A, my Union pension, full medical, dental, vision, and chiropractic. I have over the past 10 years made anywhere between $95K to $120K. I have specialized in TIG/Alloy welding and Orbital welding and have never been out of work unless I wanted to be. Please do not take this as I am bragging for it is all the truth. I just want to let people with questions know that being a welder is a great job and that you can make a very good living at it. I served a 5 year Union Apprenticeship after leaving the military where I learned to weld and have had all types of opportunity's to try new and exciting types of work in this field. I am not here to bash Non Union people either, for I know that there are just as many Non Union welders of the same and even better caliber welder as myself. I just have a hard time with Non Union company's taking advantage of their people and paying $20.00 an hour and NO benefits or very crappy benefits to someone with a rig, and then billing them out at $80.00 to $90.00 and hour. Or hiring the day laborer with the welder in the back of his pick up and expecting to pass him off as a trained and certified welder. Like I said just my 2 cents worth.
Thanks

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 11-12-2007 18:11 Edited 11-12-2007 18:14

I think one of the greatest challenges facing unions and craft unions themselves is the "Club" mentality. For many years the apprentiship programs were almost invitation only. You got in the union because your father was in the union, his father/uncle, etc. Now the pool has shrunk and the old guys are retiring. Instead of changing with the times, they thought things would not change. I have seen union jobs in the southwest where there were no hispanics. Does one think the union is doing a good recruting effort? The industry along with the unions had better realize the old way of recruting is over. Ring knockers and having links to the mindful order of the grand Po Pas will no longer work with the newer workers. Having a slacker on a job and being protected and promoted simply because of seniority is past. Both for management and labor. Very few of todays union membership knows anything about walking a picket. I know union members who work non-union when the local is slow and this is approved my the union. I have great respect for any craft which will openly recrut members and has a apprenticeship program and continued training for the members. But several unions require the welders to come in qualified before they can become a member. ???? How is a young person supposed to do that? A lot of guys do not want to be associated with the union because fairly or unfairly they have had a lot of issues with organized crime. Membership money is taken and used for political views the individual members do not agree with. Private industry and public education has done more for the welding trade than the union has. In certain areas I am sure one can point to where the unions recrute and promote the best individuals. But by and large, it is the high schools and community colleges which train the welders and private non-union industry that gives them the jobs. The unions feed off the side and have not taken a lead in welder development. How many ads in AWS Welder Journal are for union sponsored welding programs. I have yet to see one. As a fromer trade union member, I would love to see a surge in union activities and membership. But sadly, I do not see it happening. THe unions have lost their way and no longer have leadership. Can anyone name three union leaders and the union they represent?
Rant over.

By awspartb (***)

Date 11-12-2007 18:45

Lots of people are becoming disgusted with the nepotism in my trade union. It still goes on and yes the slackers and drunks are protected and promoted because of family name. Organized crime and sky high union dues (often $5000 a year or more) are still the norm. Blank checks are left for Democrat candidates also. Almost NO minorities of any kind which makes me wonder how in the heck they get away with it?? How can a local have 500 members and only 2 woman and 1 African American? The membership names are like a family reunion guest list.

On the plus side, they DO protect the members from dangerous working conditions, asbestos exposure (sometimes) and provide outstanding training if you are willing to learn it. The union dues, lack of per diem for travel, nepotism and drug use are a serious problem that needs to be addressed.