welder qualification for sockolet welding

Date 11-16-2007 13:15

It is my understanding, and verified numerous times from my AI, that for o-let type welds which are considered groove welds, the welder need to be qualified for that diameter AND the position he will be welding in.

So, with that said, you must think about all of the positions the welder will be welding in. If the o-let is at 0 degress (on top), the positions will be flat and horizontal. If it is at 90 or 180 degrees (either side), the position will be vertical and horizontal. If you welder takes the small diameter (2") 6g test, they would be covered for all o-let sizes and positions.

All this is assuming you are qualifying to ASMe sec IX.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 11-16-2007 13:41

I have to disagree with your AI. A SOL weld is a filet. If you qualify with a grove weld you can weld filets. YOu can qualify with pipe or plate.
BABRT's

By chall

Date 11-16-2007 14:50

I think he is referring to the o-let branch connection; not the socket welded pipe that attaches to it.

The open root o-let weld is a butt weld not a socket weld (my opinion, and our AI's as well).

Charles

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 14:51

Interesting. Actually O-lets, if performed as an open joint (not the half coupling type that is most often performed as just a fillet) are a combination of both grooves and fillets.
And technically when you are trying to determine the weld metal thickness required you are supposed to contact the forging manufacturer for their requirements on weld metal thickness and then add the fillet beyond that.
Nobody does this.
Most have never even heard of such a thing. But technically speaking, if you want to know how much metal is necessary, this is what should be done.
The reaosn nobody does it is becasue most people reference the forging line or "shoulder" (though some forgings don't have these lines or shoulders creating confusion-not to mention raging debates between production and QC departments) of the O-let as the point where the groove ends and the fillet begins and so in pretty much all cases, there is such tremendous overkill of filler nobody worries about it.
The only time we ever worried about it is when we were doing O-lets on SS and wanted to minimize the filler to minimize the distortion of the header which as many of you know can look like someone took a hammer to it as the O-let fit sinks into the header.
Most would be shocked at how little metal is actually necessary for O-lets.
This is a bit off the subject I know but I thought it might be good as a buttress to my point about O-lets actually being combo's.

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 14:58

As an addenda (having remember one other application where we calculated the actual required butt weld portion), we used to see humungouos O-lets in power applications (I'm talking 24"/30" O-lets on 24"/30" pipe-sometimes thin wall-like for cold reheats). These things would take days of welding to complete (and thats with 4 guys, FCAW, day and night). And if you did them in the usual O-let fashion referencing the shoulder you would end up with a weld about 18" or more wide and wrapping around the pipe making it look like radius bend.
To save time and extreme distortion, we would determine the amount of filler actually necessary and then add the required fillet as sort of a skirt around the base of the butt weld portion along the header.

By chall

Date 11-16-2007 15:08

Total agreement with both comments. However, the open root portion is certainly not considered a fillet weld.

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 15:14

Charles,
I agree. That is the butt weld portion.
And I think this combo thing is why there has been historically so much confusion over this. And it was actually this confusion and my battles as a welding engineer with QC that drove me to investigate what is actually supposed to take place on these things. One other note of caution though, and I'm sure you have experienced this, actually getting the required weld metal thickness from the forgers is sometimes not so easy.
Like getting AISC acceptable MTR's from plate vendors. They often just really don't care. And it may even take you a month of sundays to even find the guy that knows this info is available, because nobody ever asks.

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 15:27

Actually I mispoke. So let me clarify. You don't actually get the weld metal thickness from the forger. What you get is the nominal thickness of the branch which cannot be referenced visually from the forging. This nominal thickness (which is always smaller than the 'shoulder') can then be used to calculate the required butt weld portion. Then you add the fillet (base upon t sub c in B31.3 for example).

By jarsanb (***)

Date 11-16-2007 16:01

A little off the posted topic. But good info for anyone following this thread. And good info js55. These are probably welded incorrectly as often or more often than correctly. I see this A LOT from pipeliners. For those who would like some mfg. guidelines on proper welding practices - www.bonneyforge.com - go to branch connections (where the olets are listed) download the complete catalog and scroll down to page 33, 34 & 35. Answers to questions I get from welders are located here i.e. the cut-out, fit-up, weld passes.....

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 16:15

jarsanb,
Now thats, good info.

By new tito (***)

Date 11-16-2007 15:57

I think we may need a clarification from the OP.

My post was intended to reference the o-let to the 8" pipe. This weld would definately be a groove weld, WITH an added fillet weld as other below have posted.

Now, if the OP was refering to the 1" pipe into the S-O-L, this would definitely be a fillet weld only, and the position limitations would apply according to the welder's original qual test.

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 16:02

nt,
Yeah, the thread was hijacked a bit. You're right though, it depends on what 'side' of the O-let you are welding.

By js55

Date 11-16-2007 16:03

There is no diameter limitation on the socket side.

By 803056

Date 11-18-2007 15:40

A long as we are "off subject" somewhat, I believe that the contractor, engineer, and inspector have to differentiate between those fittings that fall into the category where the branch fitting is covered by the ASME limitations (code specific) such as: the fitting is 2 inches or less in diameter and no more than 1/4 the diameter of the run pipe and those that are engineered because they exceed the limitations I listed. - Talk about a long run-on sentence!

It scares the hell out of me when I see a branch fitting that is an integrally reinforced branch fitting with a single root pass as the completed weld. When I ask the contractor what piping code they are working to their reply is either "ASME" or "I don't know, it's just pipe".

The bottom line is that many drawings provided to the field crews offer insufficient information to the installer, welder, and inspector. Usually I find the information I need in the project specification, but often it doesn't filter down to the people that need it and they haven't the training to know where to locate the information, thus, "it's only pipe" is the common reply I get when I ask, "What piping code are you working to?"

Just my thought on the subject. You gentlemen have covered the subject nicely.

Best regards - Al