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- - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 19:40
Hello Gentlemen;

The time has come to formalize and put to pen what has been commonly referred to as the "Farm Code" or in some circles the "Standard of Commercial Welding".

I would like to propose the following:

The committee to draft such a work of useless but necessary information be open to all wishing to incorporate their collective useless misinformation as they may care to share.

The "Standard of Commercial Welding or Farm Code" shall be known as "The Other Red Book".

To start I propose the inclusion of the following suggestions (remember, there are no requirements in the "Standard of Commercial Welding" or "Farm Code"):

Preheat: Regardless of the type of base metal, preheat shall be sufficient to drive all moisture from the pores of the base metal or until it stops "sweating". Once dried, additional preheat is a waste of gas and money.
For critical jobs on any aluminum alloy, smoke the base metal with an acetylene flame and heat it with an oxidizing flame to burn off the carbon black.

Filler Metal for GTAW:
Coat hangers and SMAW electrode with flux removed may be used. 

Precleaning:
Not required if the amperage is increased to "burn out the oxides"
Removal of cutting dross: not required. A good welder and high amperage can burn through it.
Paint or oil: turn up the amperage and burn it in.

SMAW:
Electrode conditioning: Short the end of the electrode (including damp low hydrogen electrodes) to the workpiece until the flux on the rod turns red.
Additional filler metal can be added to really big blow holes, burn through, and other gaping openings by manually adding flux free SMAW electrode to the weld puddle.
Electrodes that have been wet can be "sun dried" prior to use. Disregard any white powdery substances or cracked or flaking flux coating. Increased amperage may be required.
Electrodes of questionable origins or pedigree may be used if inspection is not required or if no cracks are observed when the weld is completed.
Electrode ovens can also serve double duty as an oven for drying wet gloves, work boots, and pizza.
Electrode ovens should only be turned on if the electrode is noticeable damp or wet.

Back gouging:
Not required unless the inspector is looking over your shoulder and insistent that it be performed.
Extent: just enough, but not too much. Minor slag inclusions, porosity, and incomplete fusion can be burned out by the next weld pass.

Post cleaning:
Not required. The slag covers many defects and protects the weld from rain, snow, and paint.

Oxygen bottles shall be filled with clean dry air per good industry practices.
Oxygen bottles shall not be thrown to the ground from heights greater than four stories. The ground should be soft enough such that the bottle does not bounce more than three feet into the air nor should it bounce more than once.
All threads should be liberal slathered with thick grease before attaching the regulator. It is best to stand to one side in case there is an explosion when the oxygen valve is opened. Tighten the gland nut until you hear an audible squeak.

Acetylene valve that have frozen with ice can be effectively thawed using a cigarette lighter. Always leave a 12 inch adjustable wrench in the area just in case the acetylene tank has to be turn off in a hurry. 

Fitup shall be "good enough".

Acceptance Criteria: As long as it holds, its good. If it breaks, add more weld.
Weld size: make it big enough that it won't break.
Weld length: make it long enough that it doesn't break.
Tack welds: that's big enough.
Slag inclusions: turn up the heat and burn it out with the next pass. If additional weld isn't required, paint it.
Porosity: see slag inclusions above.
Cracks: weld over it before the inspector sees it.
Incomplete fusion: see cracks above.
Overlap: no problem, there's fusion under there somewhere.

Magnetic Particle Testing shall be limited to nonferrous metals or when the suspected defect is no less than 1 inch below the surface. Back gouges shall be tested from the first side welded.

Penetrant Testing shall incorporate the use of solvent (gasoline, kerosene, alcohol, acetone, etc.) to flush off any penetrant from the surface to be inspected. Excess penetrant may be removed using a paint brush saturated with one of the solvents listed. Developer need not be used if the defects are large or there is no burning desire to find said defects. If used, a heavy dripping coating is better than several light layers. Surfaces may be prepared by grit blasting or power brushing.

Ultrasonic Testing: calibration blocks are not required. Calibration may be accomplished using the edge of a beam or plate if angle beams are used to search for cracks or other things. Straight beam scanning is only required if a lamination is know to exist.

Please feel free to add any useless misinformation you feel is fitting for such a work of merit. I have others, but I can't wait to see yours!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 19:47
SMAW
Cellulosics experiencing arc blow or other arc difficulties shall be held under a faucet for no less than 30 seconds to re-hydrodize the cellulose coating.
Rusty water shall not be a concern. The O2 dissociated from the Fe shall be consumed in the arc becoming gaseous steam, and the Fe shall increase deposition rate.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 19:51
SAMW
Filler metals without a coating are mandatory for sprinkler applications.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 20:35
You fellas have the idea!

Al
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 22:21
LOL
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 16:51
ALL SAW welding shall be performed in the overhead position.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 17:08
Overhead SAW. I love it.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 11-20-2007 20:46
we will qualify him later and if he doesnt pass we'll put another welder who did pass stamp on it
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 21:04
Oh yea, heard that one before!

Al
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 11-20-2007 22:02
Acceptance criteria - NONE.  If after making the completed weldment the welder thinks it's "good enough", well then, it's "good enough".  And if the welder by chance doesn't think it's good enough, leave as is.  Repair only needed if inspector catches it. 

Alternate Inspection Criteria - At the inspector's descretion.  No published set of standards has been adopted or implemented by this organization for acknowledgement that the inspector will most certainly add opinions to any written criteria published.  Organization also acknowledges that said inspectors will enforce more stringent criteria than necessarily intended.

*footnote 1 - please disregard any standard, statement, criteria, requirements, etc, that you may find to be in direct conflict of the fact that "you've always done it this way"!!   
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 02:26
"footnote 1 - please disregard any standard, statement, criteria, requirements, etc, that you may find to be in direct conflict of the fact that "you've always done it this way"!! "
Thats something else I've heard one time to many.   
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 22:14
Heard that one time to many. Also in that vain "we'll proceed at risk when welding without a PQR"
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 22:18 Edited 11-20-2007 22:22
Don't forget the RT.

All densitys are acceptable unless there is a crack showing in which case it shall be reshot to greater than 5.0 H&D

Use of ammonia in the developer is allowed.

Use of lead screen plaque IQI's are benificial. (but only when contract docs stipulate use of IQI, if not, none is used)

The shorter the SFD the better.

Sighting in is mandatory.

Cracks are slag, LOF is slag, and if the slag is rejectable then it's porosity, if the porosity is rejectable, then it's a film scratch.

Use of ASME V is not allowed, nor is ASTM E1032
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 22:22
We'll have to add a few page to "The Other Red Book" before long. It might even surpass D1.1 in weight!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 22:24
Naw, would have to break it out into FC 01, 02, 03 etc :)
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-20-2007 23:19
No drying for 1109 electrodes is required.  If the 1109 rods are wet, dry them in the home stove set on broil, until your wife threatens to divorce you because of the smell.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 23:44
LOL
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 11-22-2007 06:14
LOL I DID THIS ONCE WITH SOME 6011 RODS THAT WERE DRIPPING WET I WAS RUNNING A BODY SHOP FOR A CAR DEALER AND NEEDED TO PUT IN A GOOSENECK HITCH ON A NEW PICK UP OWNER WOULD NOT BUY NEW RODS AND INSISTED I DRY THE WET1'S AND USE THEM SO I CALLED A SALE MANS WIFE AND ASKED HER TO DRY THEM IN HER OVEN TOLD HER PUT IT ON 350 AND COOK EM FOR 30 MINUTES WHEN SHE BROUGHT THEM BACK THEY WERE JET BLACK AND THE OWNER STILL INSISTED I USE THEM LMAO AFTER ABOUT 20 MINS LOOKED LIKE I HAD BEENATTACKED BY A BAND OF INDIANS I FINALLY GOT A NEW BOX OF RODS BUT TI TOOK HALF THE DAY LMAO AND THE CUSTOMER WAS WAITING
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-20-2007 23:46
I believe a nomination for chair person of the FC 2002 code is in order. Since it's your proposal, I would nominate you to chair for the "other red book".
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 11-21-2007 00:43
Concrete re-bar may be use only of the big hole is deemed to be really big or the bevel gap is deemed too wide.
Acceptance Criteria
All welded parts shall be dropped from the height greater than 3 feet. All weld pieces still welded shall be deemed acceptable. 
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 01:48
All non weldable rebar is weldable, all weldable rebar is deemed overpriced and therefore not allowed
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 02:00 Edited 11-21-2007 08:19
UT equipment qualification:

A minimum noise to signal ratio of 100:1 shall be used
Horizontal linearity shall be equal to the bottom of the corner notch
Response shall be no less than 20DB, or a 200 amp spike applied to the instrument prior to testing.
The equipment dynamic range shall show a minimum of 20DB change in amplitude.
Prohibited reflectors: Flat bottom holes, side drilled holes, and machine notches.
Acceptable reflectors, corner reflectors
Use of couplant shall be prohibited.

Equipment not meeting these requirements shall be dropped a minimum of a 40 foot free fall and retested.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 11-21-2007 06:17
Repair of mislocated Holes: Holes shall be filled with any slug that fits! with minimal weld to ensure slug stays attached!
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 11-21-2007 06:54
bgtsm
back gouge metal till it makes a sound
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 11-21-2007 07:28
ANY and ALL repairs made to implement structures at the joint site including but not limited to the following:  Trailer tounges, goosenecks, pto's, three points, spring hangers, spindles etc.   Shall be repaired by this procedure:  If it will take longer to grind our the previous weld then to smoke a Marlboro short and/or if you forgot your grinder, cord or air hose; then an extraneous member of scrap angle, channel or plate must be applied over the repair area and scabbed on using the first available smaw rod you come across in the bottom of your toolbox.  It is suggested that double rates be charged for engineering fees, however it is required by code that the customer is assaulted with lengthy explanations of how you saved them money.    Footnote:  For any mowing decks repaired cleaning is unnecessary and actually prohibited, hay fires promote proper heat temperament of the deck and aid in removing useless bearing grease.  In order to insure proper metallurgy it is suggested that patch repair material be cut from the actual deck being repaired and/or any other unused implements nearby.

ok maybe its more a wps then the code.....

All Smaw rods soaked by rain the previous nite are preferable to use first...water is a good conductor therefore this will increase the deposition rate of any rod by 25%. 

Oh yea the only inspector that counts on any job is the guy with the roll of bills in his overalls...

This is a good one guys
TOmmy
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 23:13
In accordance with safety requirements, when work is to be done at elevated heights, the following shall be used for welding:
FCAW shall be by remote method. Remote apparatus shall utilize a broom stick with the gun tapped to it. A cantilevered string shall be tied to the trigger for actuation.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 11-22-2007 04:27
"In accordance with safety requirements, when work is to be done at elevated heights, the following shall be used for welding:
FCAW shall be by remote method. Remote apparatus shall utilize a broom stick with the gun tapped to it. A cantilevered string shall be tied to the trigger for actuation. "
Footnote 1: when using SMAW if lead is too short, short circuiting rod to a piece of rebar and using for stinger is acceptable!
Parent - - By Mat (***) Date 11-21-2007 12:52 Edited 11-21-2007 14:08
A 3/8" horizuntul gap cut wrong doo to an undrawn lyne and relying on a strate edge fit to de part fer the manual plazma cut in the horisontul positiun on 3/16" plate can be filled with dewalshield FCAW, but not GMAW, becuz "We're not allowed too."    There's butt joint, and then there's "Ass Crack" joint.  Who knew? *puzzled*

There's always bondo, trough it on and spread'r!

What can be done sober can be done drunk!

In the event that you don't have access to an all position wire, a series of uphand Metal cored tacks followed by a downhand cap will suffice for an uphand.  If it looks like a weld, it'll hold like a weld.

The other book, "Clownshoe's and Assclown's, you names it, frum millur to linkun, we gots yuh welduring kneeds covurd!"
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 11-21-2007 14:14
When using Oxyacetylene for welding or cutting make sure to have regulators for the fuel gas turned up to the "red" portion on the regulator, this will allow for proper heat when cutting anything over 1/8" thick.
When welding regulators frost up, do NOT close cylinder and slow production. Use the cutting torch to melt away ice and and then re-tighten.
All welding and cutting gas hoses shall meet rubber air hose specifications. Those expensive things are just a gimmic.
If having uxeplainable welding problems with the GMAW or GTAW processes, assume it is always the shielding gas. Take shielding gas cylinder and lay it on it's side. Continue to roll cylinder around until gas has been evenly distributed through-out or properly blended when using a mix.
Cylinder caps can be lost and misplaced. Only need one cap available to place on the cylinder going back to supplier.
Parent - By jarsanb (***) Date 11-21-2007 14:32
Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's) are only available for reference. Proper engineering, fabrication and testing is to be determined by the welder(s). In the event no WPS is avaialbe for review, weld all unknow ferrous materials with E6011 electrodes. Keep electrodes in a moist area on the floor in a torn box. If E7018 or other lo-hy rods are to be used, store electrodes in a closet. Keep light on in the closet most of the time. This will allow for proper drying.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 11-21-2007 14:44
Rat holes (weld access holes) may be made after the webs and flanges are welded.

Preheat is only required when sombody who can make trouble is watching.

Soup and sandwiches may be heated in electrode storage ovens.

Reels of GMAW, FCAW, or SAW electrodes should be sprayed with WD-40 to reduce friction through the welding gun.

Defects may be obscured by needle-gunning the heck out ot the surface.

Cracked welds may be repaired by running another bead over the crack (burn 'er in dere)

Plugging in a 120VAC Mag-particle yoke is optional.

Dye pentrant may be power-washed before applying developer, provided the dwell time is sufficient.  Insufficient dwell time may be compensated for by spraying on the developer in multiple, heavy coats.

Welding may be performed only by certified personnel, but irrespective of the processes and positions a person is actually qualified for.
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 11-21-2007 17:25
"Defects may be obscured by needle-gunning the heck out ot the surface."

I had to LOL at that one!!!  "King" (as explained in a previous post of mine regarding the most hard headed, cocky, whiny, etc welder I have ever seen) used to do this all the time.  It would really chap his arse even more when I would still find a defect and make him repair it.  HAHA

Here's another...

Mating flanges not within alignment tolerances may be heated to, but not below "cherry red", and any mechanical means necessary which include hammering, bending, beating, kicking, use on come-a-longs, winches, pick up trucs, etc may be used to bend pipe into correct tolerance.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 11-21-2007 17:46
the smaw requirements seem a little strengent. it would be more appropiate for these to be invoked in issues of hi-low
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-22-2007 03:52
Air dryer cartriges from the plasma cutter can be reconditioned in the refigerator with a lightbulb that the rods are kept in.
Aluminum parts can be held in position with super glue rather than clamping for TIG welding.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-22-2007 04:00
Electrode Storage Ovens?... HELLOOOOO????
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 11-23-2007 11:14
Oops!  Sorry! You're right!  Electrode Storage Ovens have no application in "The Other Red Book".  Those using the Farm Code should disregard the comment about those little yellow cans with cords attached.

An oxy-acetylene torch will do a better job in heating soup and sandwiches.  Simply preheat the steel to cherry red and use it for a skillet.  The soup will get hot when you burn the lid off the can with the torch (Ha!!! and my wife thought I didn't know what the "Iron Chef" is.)  This will serve 2 purposes, heat up your lunch AND prepare the torch tip for burning the proper Farm Code bevel.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-23-2007 13:19
Hey Now

Blackening a steak with the rosebud is well within the code.

At least in my interpretation.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 11-23-2007 22:19
Joe, I think he meant sticking the electodes in the exhaust of the tractor!
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-23-2007 23:56
Preferably when the the tractor is still cold and spitting moister out of the exhaust.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 11-21-2007 20:18
Rough welds should be covered with red body filler putty!

Burning cowpies as you work should provide sufficiant preheat! If not, the first weld pass will bring it up to temp!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 21:27 Edited 11-21-2007 21:34
Welding symbols shall consist of an arrow pointing to the joint with the notation "weld here" or if the weld is of critical nature use the note "weld as required".

Members that are cut twice and still found to be too short may be welded provided the gap is reduced or closed with a bolt, threaded rod, or electrodes with the flux removed. The final weld shall perferablly cover any threads or electrode stubs.

Porosity open to the surface may be obscured by striking with the ball end of a ball peen hammer to close the open pore.

Critical welds may be deposited by an unqualified welder provided the cover pass is deposited by a certified welder or if the foreman overseeing the work is a qualified welder.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 21:35
I'm not sure this was a good idea after all. You people scare the hell out of me!;)

You wouldn't be adding to the post if you hadn't seen these practices in the field!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By warmka weld (*) Date 11-21-2007 22:47
Anybody that can afford a 120v welder is automatically a welder by trade.  Farmer can and will provide old plow shares to be welded on for reinforcement.  Diamond plate is the best looking patch material on the farm
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 11-21-2007 23:02
this sounds like the code they used at Good Hope Refinery back in the Eighties, I never knew it had a name, though.
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 11-21-2007 23:38
Yes anybody can mig weld all you have to do is pull the trigger.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-22-2007 02:08
Arc weld symbols
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 11-22-2007 06:55
seen the practices? I thought we were on the code commitee for having the experiance!
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 11-22-2007 04:12
when doing commercial jobs, acr strikes longer than 1 inch shall be wiped with gloves and smeared with mud!
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-22-2007 09:33
when doing commercial jobs, acr strikes longer than 1 inch shall be wiped with gloves and smeared with mud!
Footnote 1: All drag marks for striking an arc are not considered arc strike.
Footnote 2: Just a little bit of it won't hurt anything.
Footnote 3: Inspection of arc strikes is prohibited as it's just a way for the inspector to get more money from management.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-21-2007 23:19
When welding tubular structures greater than 15' in diameter, plate preheat shall exceed 2000F if the initial roll of the plate is warped to bring it back into alignment.
If said tube/can is dropped by the crane, and subsequent dent to large to fill with bondo, repair area shall be heated to 2000F and hammered until it looks like a tortoise shell, fill welded and bondo'd to smooth appearance.
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