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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / ??? about my machine
- - By k_williams (*) Date 12-01-2007 20:09
Hey guys im new on here but have been reading your forum for a while now. I have a few questions but will start with this one.  I have a '67 redface and it runs and welds awsome for about 2 - 2 1/2 hrs then the engine dies like its over heated. Could it be caused by the way I have it set inside of my pick up.  I have it turned side ways in the back of an '07 dodge dually with a normal truck bed. (as i havent got around to building a welding bed yet) would this cause it not to get enough air flow to it, because ive seen alot of them set up this way. Or would i be having problems with the water pump/radiator. Any advise on this subject would be helpful, thanks alot guys
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-02-2007 01:00
do you have a temp guage? machine is just "quits". does the machine diesel when it quits.will it start after it dies?
You may have a fuel filter problem. these machines usually run just fine.
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 01:28
Thanks for your reply im new here and was begining to wander if i had to be in the click to get a answer, but no i dont have a temp gauge on it yet, but it is a gas engine.  i believe it is a '67 model, with a 163 cont. red seal.  and it does start back after a minute or may be two but it dont take it long. as soon as i try to arc back up it will sputter and die again. but if i let it cool for about 30 mins or so it will run for a couple more hrs or so.
Parent - - By downhandonly (***) Date 12-02-2007 04:07
a 67 should be a 162. incase you need to know to order parts. the quickest way to determine by a glance is a 162 has the starter down low and a 163 has it up high. sounds like you have bad compression. works well cold and dies hot. does it smoke?
Parent - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 14:19
it would be a 162 cause the starter is down at the bottom. yes it runs great until it gets hot then acts like its out of fuel. it does smoke a little when i crank it up but it goes away pretty quick.  i just figured it was caused by only running it on the weekends.
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-02-2007 01:01
the way that your welder is set in the pickup doesnt have any affect on this.....i believe. alot of guys are set up "bathtub" style.
Parent - By PlanB (*) Date 12-02-2007 01:46
Had one in the shop this week, same probs. Carb was trash. When he ran it enough, it would just quit. If was he not really hard on it, it was fine. Just ran out of fuel when he used it hard. Make sure yours is not getting hot though, if it is getting hot, it is not because it is in the tub.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 12-02-2007 01:45
when he said " does it diesel?" he meant after you  shut it off does it continue to fire sporadically for a little bit even with ignition off (slight knocking noise to usually like a diesel)
Parent - - By SA-200 (**) Date 12-02-2007 01:56
Service your fuel system and magneto.
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 02:13
ok i understand what you mean by diesel now, i had a classic II for a couple years so i know that sound. No it dont do that it acts more like it is out of fuel but when you check it has a good flow. i put a inline filter on it and you can see it full and pull the line and it is steady. i did have the carb worked on about a week after i bought the machine cause it was nasty, nasty inside. i wonder why it runs fine though then just decides it dont want to feed itself if thats the case. i need to have a temp guage put on it to see if its over heating. do they cost much or are they hard to install yourself, im an ok mechanic if i know the problem just not much of a trouble shooter, can i do it myself or better have some one who knows what their doing. maybe a new carb would be the problem solver also, i dont really know at this point. but need to get it fixed as im trying to break out and this needs to be fixed before i do.
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-02-2007 02:32
new carbs are 150 bucks(zeneth). can buy them in okc. they will ship direct to you. www.billswelderrepair.com .they have a site that deals in zeneth carbs. i bought 2 of them this summer. i personally would install Murphy gages on your welder.this would allow you to run your machine without worry of ruining your machine. Oil and temp guages. you can buy them at any Napa. easy to install.
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 02:40
ok thanks, i need to get that done quick. the carb on my machine is a marvel shcebler, will a zennith intercahnge on my machine or do i need to go back with the marvel.
Parent - - By 52lincoln (***) Date 12-02-2007 04:11
send your carb to Chris Blanchard in Odessa,Tx. It will be back in a couple of days,like new(432)552-8150.Chris' welder repair.they can get you all the gauges you need.Or anything else you need for your rig.Not trying to step on any toes, just giving you more connections.
Parent - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 14:22
ive heard of chris' welding in odessa before, i lived in san angelo for about 6 years then moved to sonora for a year before coming to the ft worth area looking for work. ive heard good things about him just never met him.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-02-2007 06:20
first and foremost get you a murphy switch temp gauge that way if it gets hot it will kill the engines mine did the same thing today fuel flow was fine it was in the distributor i replaced cap rotor and points they were all fried 77.00$ later and it's running like a new machine again and yes the zenith will interchange if you get the right 1 i get my marvel carb kits at the local napa dealr for about 20.00 they are easy to rebuild i'd check the points they may jus need to be cleaned and regapped the gap on the points in a distributor is .020 i dont know what it is in a magneto i have an extra mag. for sale if you need 1
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 14:15
ok thanks, im gonna try to clean the mag and dis first since i did have the carb rebuilt.  I know they acid washed the carb and put new jets and needles in it so i will try the other work first, before buying a new one if i dont need it.  i have a cd weldmart.com and printed off all the info i should need on the magneto so should be able to rebuild myself. if not i know someone who can help. if i need to i will let you know about buying your extra 1. im heading to the part store now for my gauges so will be able to check temp on it.
Parent - - By dobsalot (**) Date 12-02-2007 15:45
I had this problem before and I had trash in the fuel bowl inlet.  Took a small amount of air pressure,just a couple a pounds , and blowed it clear by blowing thru the fuel hose at the carb.  Disconnect fuel hose at the carb, run fuel into 16 oz plastic soda bottle, it should flow enough fuel to fill the bottle in about 5 to 10 seconds. If it doesn't you have blockage in the line somewhere.You might try this before you spend a lot of money on parts and labor that you don't need.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-02-2007 18:03
i trashedthe fuel bowl and valve and replaced w a 1/2" ball valve a inline filter and a screw on filter at the cxarb no more trash in my carb cleaning the tank real good and a couple of magnets works too all of this works great together
Parent - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-03-2007 00:31
i like the ball valve/filter. it never fails, when i take a sediment bowl apart, the aluminum screw on the bottom of the sediment bowl will brake or seize up. i hate the damn things. shad, i do like that idea!
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-02-2007 17:59
you want murphy switch gauges oil and temp both that way theres no worries if it gets to hot engine dies if oil gets to low engine dies but still good practice to check oil n water everyday
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-02-2007 18:21
sounds good im gonna replace the fuel filter again, and get rid of the sediment bowl, and i dont see why i cant stick a magnet in the fuel tank with out draining it, just to see if it does anything. i cleaned the mag and points but havent ran it long enough to see if it helped, i know it couldnt of hurt any way.  i did pick up some gauges where is the best place to install the sending unit for the temp gauge since this machine has never had one?
Parent - By 52lincoln (***) Date 12-03-2007 00:05
If your looking at the front,on the right side of the head plate at the back.thats the hottest part of your motor.
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 12-02-2007 23:17
Hiya.  I've been reading this thread.  Before you buy anything, determine if it's getting hot.  If you don't have an infra red heat gun then borrow one  and shoot the engine in the area of the thermostat - that's where the coolant is the hotest.  You'll soon know if you're overheating.  It's quite possible you're not getting enough air circulating through the rad because of the way you have placed your machine in your truck.  Also bear in mind that electrical parts can fail at higher temperatures and work just fine a lower temperature.  I think it's very unlikely that you have any carb or fuel delivery systems because of what you have said about the inline fuel filter.  Hope this helps.  Tom
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-03-2007 00:47
1 st of all thanks alot from every body, i have got my gauges and will get them on, do i need to drill any holes or would there happen to be a plug or bolt i can pull to place the sending unit?  i did go ahead and clean the mag up cause it probly needed it anyway, (even if it didnt help my problem, not sure yet though), I dont have a infared heat gauge but i have a friend that does and will definatly try it.  I do think that i have a fuel delivery problem, because when i changed my fuel filter it didnt seem to fill the new one up. I t will take me a few days to have time but i am going to pull my fuel tank and clean it and get rid of the sediment bowl and put a ball valve in there. if that dont solve my problems then ill pull the machine out and turn it long ways in the bed. if i still have problems the i know it is somthing different, then i'll start with the water pump or radiator it has to be in there somwhere, because when you crank it the first couple of hours its like a new machine and runs/welds awsome. i will let you all know how it turns out , just give me a couple days.

thanks for everyone input/advice ( i couldnt get better help from anyone)
kent
Parent - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-03-2007 01:05
i will bet you a coke or beer that the fuel situaton is your problem. keep us advised as other welders will find this thread very helpful.
Parent - - By 52lincoln (***) Date 12-03-2007 01:09
it will have a plug,on the right side of the motor.it should come out ,but if it dont just put a lil heat on it.just a lil though.
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-03-2007 02:59
i hope the fuel is my problem, after all that been talked about and ive tried im almost positive it is,even if its not ill take you up on that beer offer.  Hell ill buy the the beer you just help me drink it.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-03-2007 04:12
Check for any large chunks of debris in the fuel tank, they can get sucked fast over the outlet while running and get disloged when shut down. On the turf farm a kid tore up a playing card and put it in the tank on a tractor to cause a problem like You are having. It drove the mechanic nuts for a while, as every time it quit for the kid it would start right up for the mechanic. A few tiny flakes of rust in the carb bowl will do the same.
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 12-03-2007 18:09
On the marvel carbs you have a plug in the bottom of the belly. Pull it out and drain the fuel in the carb. If no fuel drains you have debris in the the belly, poke something up in the hole to move the debris. Once it starts draining smoothly reinstall the plug.

Is your mag getting hot? How do your plug wires look?

There is a link on my engine drives page about the Marvel carb, Look at it.

Chris in Odessa, is a good guy and a welder mechanic. I haven't seen or talked to him since he left Pauls Valley.
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 12-03-2007 21:35
An in-line fuel filter doesn't necessarily fill to the top - don't let that fool you.  If your welder consistantly runs for 2 to 2 1/2 hrs before quitting then I think you're looking at a problem relating to heat - whether the engine is actually overheating or something electrical quits when it gets hot enough - and not a fuel problem at all.  T
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 12-03-2007 22:18
I second that.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-04-2007 02:49
if you have the doors on your machine take the 1 closest to the cab off to aloow ample air supply i had my 68 mounted this way and it never got hot also check your water level in your radiator if it gets hot the water will sometimes disapte this is a clue of a heat problem if its full then it aint a heat problem its electrical and for that you would have to ask kaye like i do lol
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 12-04-2007 04:01
Shad...With respect.  Your welder is designed to run with the doors on - not off.  It won't run cooler with the doors removed - as long as there is good clearance between the rad and the side of the truck.  If you solved an overheating problem by removing one of the doors I think it was because there was a restriction of air flow through the rad.  When you took the door off you had some airflow out the side - which was better than nothing - but not the best.  I agree that if you are loosing coolant it indicates an engine overheat condition - the coolant burps out a bit at a time every time it gets hot.  Tom
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-04-2007 18:19
Thank you for being respectful and yes your right theres was a restriction problem i had the machine in an 86 chevy 1 tonn dually mounted long ways with the cab which cut the rad. in 1/2 so i removed a door not only for that reason also to check and add oil which i had to do daily but removing the door did help it to keeo at 180 degrees even burning bigger rods but yes you are correct i guess i should of added that as well thank you for catching that sure would not like a man to loose his machine because i forgot to tell him something
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-06-2007 01:40
Ok, i appreciate everything from every one of ya'll, this weekend im gonna go ahead and clean my tank anyway (as it wouldnt hurt), i will also put my gauges in. the machine dont have the doors on it so shouldnt be a problem there.
i just changed the plugs, plug wires, had the carb worked on, and cleaned the mag and other regular maintence.
what kind of temp should it run? if its a heat problem where to start? (thermostat? water pump? radiator?) theres not much else to it from that is there?
if electric where do i start looking?

thanks
kent
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-06-2007 03:14
It shouldnt get any hotter than 180 i personnaly would start with a thermostat to check it you can hold it over an ope3n flame if it's working properly it will open ( you can see it move very slowly) if it works try flushing the radiator if it's been sitting for a while ort it's never been done probably not a bad idea to do it anyway if that aint it well then theres the water pump and those are tricky to check usually if it aint leaking it's working fine only way to tell if its working if it is to start the machine let it warm up good and pop the cap to see if the water is flowing not wavy from vibration moving how hot is it getting? watch running it to long without a temp gauge cause if it gets really hot it can warp the head and thats a whole other ball game
Parent - - By k_williams (*) Date 12-07-2007 01:36
ok thanks, i will check it all out thoroughly and will keep an eye on it.
Parent - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 12-07-2007 04:11
My machine did the very same thing to me about a week ago and all it was, was my points in my mag where burnt plum up!! so I replaced them and my condenser and haven't had any problems since. OH make sure you buy the right kind of wires for that machine no need wastin money when the right ons are about the same price.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / ??? about my machine

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