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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Bolt Welding WPS
- - By eekpod (****) Date 12-10-2007 19:21
Question, if I want to qualify a procedure to be able to weld a structural bolt, how would I go about that?

The bolt is A307 and it doesn't come in plate form, only bolts.  Can I weld and qualify a WPS welding a bolt?

It's not pre-qualified per D1.1 because it's not listed in the chart.  Could I weld it up, and send it out to the lab and if they tensile test it and it's greater than the tensile of A307 would it be allowed to pass?

Open to suggestions.

FYI, this is to possibly repair a couple of broken off anchor bolts already set in concrete in the field, also this is a first for me. The engineer approved the repair, I just need to test it.
Thanks Chris
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 12-10-2007 20:43
can you get 307 with a dual cert for a36
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-10-2007 23:42
Ask the engineer what testing regiment he wants. It should not be your responsibility to devise a method and means of qualifying the procedure. You are the inspector performing either QC or QA functions, not engineering functions.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-11-2007 11:27
Al,
Now you know what you stated is easy to say here on the forum.......but in reality, the engineer is probably relying on the QA/QC and his experience to use which ever method or means that is commonly used. Happens to me all the time, when I fall back to the engineer and start asking welding questions. Their forte' is engineering, and alot of times they simply know nothing about welding, other than what they may have read somewhere...fact is they rely on us more often than not, and want us to suggest something that will work. If you run up on an engineer who knows his/her stuff and knows exactly what he/she wants, you have a gold mine, work with them and give them exactly what they ask for.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-11-2007 11:35
Chris,
Did you have enough anchor rod sticking out of the concrete to thread the end and use a coupling nut to add onto the anchor rod to make it long enough to get enough stick-through?

Regular(non-HS) anchor bolts get welded from time to time and the repair is signed off by the EOR. have you spoken with your testing lab to see if they have a suggestion, so you don't waste a bunch of time and money? I haven't been put in your situation yet, so I can't really suggest anything of value. As long as Al and Joe have been doing this, surely they have some ideas to share with you ;-)
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-11-2007 13:34
You included the the magic phrase, "have the EOR sign off on the repair" in your last response John.

Welding an anchor rod is dicey to say the least. Any repair of damaged anchor rods needs to be considered carefully and needs to include the EOR. That isn't just to CYA, it's to make sure no one is injured or killed by some haphazard repair. Any repair you dream up and qualify will most likely be screwed up during implementation. Preheat, "We don't need no stinking preheat." Low hydrogen electrode, "We don't no stinking electrode oven, its just an anchor rod, we always weld them with E7014".

I'm speaking from experience in this case. I rode a two story building to the ground because some idiot repaired an anchor bolt cluster without telling anyone. My connecting partner was out of work for nearly 2 years because of his injuries and he wore a back brace until the day he passed away. Another acquaintance was killed as a result of a faulty anchor bolt repair.

There is no reason to risk someone else's life because of a bad anchor bolt installation or repair.  I don't buy it. The contractor can use an epoxied anchor if all else is out of consideration.

No, as I said, the contractor doesn't get a free ride on damaged anchor rods. You better check the OSHA regs on any fix proposed for the anchor rods, the regs have been tightened over the last several years and I'm pretty damn sure the repair has to be approved by the EOR. Even if the EOR approves the repair, everyone involved better have damn good insurance policies and a get out of jail free card from the Bush administration. Maybe "Scooter" is done with his and will let you borrow it.

How do you know what the anchor bolt material is? Did you check the MTRs for the material used? Was there material traceability required for the project? I've had suppliers provide quench and tempered rods even when A36 was specified because "It is better than A36". Just because the drawing says it is AXXX, doesn't mean it is AXXX, especially now that so much of the raw material is coming in from foreign suppliers and the warehouse people are inclined to ship what is on hand to clear inventory.

Can the concrete be chipped back and the damaged rod rethreaded? Can an coupling nut be used to extend the anchor rod? Welding the extension rod is the last resort in my book. I'm not saying it isn't done, but then again, people never seem to tire of gambling with someone else's life in the name of saving time or money for the contractor.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a subject I've had too much experience with and few of them had happy endings. Never in twenty plus years of inspecting can I recollect suggesting welding a nut on an anchor rod to extend it. It is always the very last resort and it always comes from some one other than me.

Maybe this should be included in FC2002.

Gotta run - Al
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 12-12-2007 00:44
Wow Al, that's quite a situation you describe, and more importantly you brought up a number of good point's to consider.  I haven't been out to the job site to see it myself, somehow they "broke" off two x 1" anchor rods.  I got the material from the drawing, so I can't be 100% that's it's the same material that was installed but I need to investigate it further. 
I didn't realize there was a such thing as a coupler to be able to re-connect the two pieces, although I don't know how that would work in regards to the size of the hole in the base plate, I don't think it will fit in the hole as it.

Someone on site sent an RFI in to the engineer requesting info on how to repair these two broken anchor bolts.  The engineer replied back  (i don't have it home w/ me so I'm paraphrasing) "It is OK to weld the bolt to the anchor plate as long as the weld can attain the same tensile strength as the bolt."  My field guy asked me how to weld it, and I told him," well it doesn't fall under prequalified because A307 isn't listed in the material chart". So that got me to the next step how do I qualify the procedure.  Then I asked you guys.

Normally they drill a new hole and chemical anchor a new bolt in, but rumor has it that the engineers are getting away from chemical anchors( go figure w/ the tunnel at Logan airport).
I guess what the engineer wants is for us to plug weld the stub of the bolt in the hole of the anchor plate.  What the welders wanted to do is to bevel the new end of the anchor bolt and weld it to the existing anchor bolt, the repaired area will be below the surface of the anchor plate and they will still be able to put a nut and washer on it.   Nobody knows anything about how two separate bolts got broken off, I still can't figure that one out.
As far as how much is sticking up above the concrete I don't know, but thanks for the input,  Chris
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 12-12-2007 02:28 Edited 12-12-2007 02:32
you might check with the EOR and see if you cant just weld the remaining bolt to the base plate if theres enough bolt! I had the same problem years ago, a simple plug weld was the fix!

Edit: I gotta say that was 30 years ago, and i dont remember any inspectors on the job, coulda been working to FC1978!
Parent - - By Kyle Thoren Date 12-12-2007 21:17
Here is another possible option.  I had a project that the anchors were architecturally exposed, the A/E specified this product be used.  http://www.canam-steeljoist.ws/www/v4/ecanamj.nsf/steeljoist/elocone 

Again, you must have enough thread exposed to engage the coupler portion of the Elocone Nut.  But perhaps this will work in your case.

Don't forget to consider the safety issue for the erector, OSHA is pretty specific about 4 AB's in place for erection of columns, and any repairs to be disclosed to the erector.  This may be as important, if not more, as the final design loading
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 12-17-2007 11:53
I finally had a moment to go to AISC and see what they had to say about this issue.
Luckily for me, it has been asked and posted on their website AISC.org.  If I were more computer savy I would post the link to the repair, but I don't know how, so I'll give a breif explanitaion here.

AISC.org> Engineering FAQ> 7.1 Anchor Rods> scroll down to 7.1.5 How can anchor rods be extended above the base plate.
The first method is the threaded coupler that was mentioned already in this post.
The second method does allow welding of certain types and grades of anchor bolts.  The diagram shows that the added portion is to be bevelled to a point and welded on. 
Chris
Parent - By weldeng13 (*) Date 12-24-2007 15:47
I agree with the posters about grouting in a new anchor rod or the anchor bolt connector as the first choices.  Assuming the anchor rod was a weldable grade (nonheat treated); the AISC diagram is a good way to perform the repair.  To qualify the repair I would make a mock up of exactly what you to perform in the field and have it tested.  For testing you may have to make more then one mock up, as an engineer I would hesitate on accepting just one tensile test specimen to qualify the weld. There should also be an additional mock up for NDT training for inspecting the actual production pieces.  UT inspection of anchor rods is not easy. I would also base my parameter "window" on table 4.5 in D1.1-06.  Take everyone's advise for preheat/low hydrogen techniques.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Bolt Welding WPS

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