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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anyone still doin the "Texas weave"?
- - By SPARKYCA (**) Date 12-22-2007 17:00
I walked by a treater vessel a couple days ago and noticed one of the reinforcing pads had a weld on it with big butterfly wings. It got me wondering if inspection or codes would still allow this. The vessel was probably constructed in the late 70's to early 80's ( I did'nt look at the nameplate ). One of the welders I worked with yrs ago used to be very good at welding on thead-o-lets with 6010 & 7010 this way. He referred to it as the Texas weave.  Any thoughts/ comments on this ?  Merry Chistmas to all !
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 12-22-2007 18:49
El Paso used to require it in all aboveground caps. The HAZ is huge!
This did not make a lot of difference on low grade pipe, but when the thinner high grade took over, the weave went out. I broke out with a welder who could put a slick weave in a TOL. I never could get the hang of it and was always capping over my mistakes. So I just stayed with a 2 pass bead cap. If you look closely at the welds, on most of them you will see a lot of gas pockets and bugholes.    
Parent - - By SPARKYCA (**) Date 12-22-2007 20:59
Hi kahunna , I enjoyed reading one of your previous posts about the front end on pipeline. Never got to any big inch jobs myself, but lots of smaller stuff ( 3-6 inch ). The last P-line  job I was on there were 3 cutouts from arc burns (ground clamps) . Is the oilfield down there busy too ?
Parent - By downhandonly (***) Date 12-22-2007 21:09
I use a magnetic gooseneck kinda thing that sits on the pipe coating and folds back out of the way for grinding/buffing and folds back down to make contact only on the joint. same as the old ones made out of 3/8 round bar or whatever that sit on the yellowjacket and stretch over to the joint. I still use my ground straps when I'm on the small stuff though I find them alot faster. just gotta keep buffing the tar and snotballs off them once in a while though and you won't get any arc burns.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 12-23-2007 04:09
A lot of work here in the Permian Basin. But there are a lot of rig chasers out of work. These are guys who bought a welder, a pickup and they are a welder. Tested a bunch of them last summer and the pass/fail rate was 80% and some days 100%. It was a tough one 100% bead open root 7018 plus regular 6G 6010/70 DH.
Ther is a lot of good paying work over by Ft Worth on Barnet Shale stuff. Gas drops below 5 and a lot of projects will get put on hold.
Kinder finished the El Paso expansion to Phoenix so any real pipelining is slim right now. A pipeliner needs to learn how to run 7018 and pass the API 1107 repair sleve test. THere is a lot of that work going on chasing smart pigs. THere is a lot of cut-out and stopple work on this. And no stopple can be welded in daylight. IT has to be dark and if it is not raining, the helpers have to spray water on the welders so they feel at home.
Flint has 2 welders from El Paso to Austin qualified to do the repair work. A lot of welders have issues welding on loaded lines. 450 PSI 3 inches from your face makes you think.
Most of the repair work in this area is non-union but pays well. Most are paying 40-45 for the arm and 15-20 for the machine. And the contractor furnishes. They pay travel one way each day.
And the regular day in and out work is busy, just lower scale 30-35 for the arm and 10-15 for the machine.
I am trying to give up the glamor and have hired out as a project manager. I am pushing singlehands and that is kinda different after working with rig welders. Home most nights and the boss furnishes a truck. The phone rings all the time with people offering work, but it would mean hooking up the Airstream. I will let you young uns have this for a while. The redhead sayes she will shoot me if I do not stay around for a while.
BABRt's 
Parent - By downhandonly (***) Date 12-23-2007 04:15
lol. you gotta watch them redheads, theyre fiesty.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 12-22-2007 21:28
I don't think there's anyplace that'll let you weld like that anymore.
I've got several tons of 24" .500 wall station fab out in the boneyard that I really should've sent to scrap when we cleaned up a couple of years ago, but it has some very nice examples of wide, laced caps. So I keep it around just to look at every once in a while.
Some of the oldtimers could really lace a slick one on there.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By stringerbead22 Date 12-23-2007 00:47
Can we post pics on this forum? Any pics of the Texas weave?
Parent - By ason1965 (*) Date 12-24-2007 19:08
Yes, I would like to see one too, since I am pretty new to welding but definitely interested in learning all there is to know both book and otherwise on the subject.

thanks and Merry Christmas to all you and yours!

Dean
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 12-25-2007 05:26
Due respect...but what is the "Texas Weave"?
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 12-25-2007 17:14
It is alco called a lace weld or Lazy D. I have seen this weld on piping and vessels form the 40-s until the late 70's when with material changes and higher grade steel the HAZ and stress corrosion cracking began to be understood. Somewhere in a box of my stuff is a late 1960's El Paso Natural Gas Pipeline requiring a lace weld on all above ground piping. Done right, it is a pretty weld. THose old timers were artist! But its day is past and no operator will let you do one except on a bar-b-q pit to show off. It is a old timer two pass cap.
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 12-31-2007 23:53
One of my CWI buddys calls that an "Ironworker weave", he will fail it everytime, no matter how nice it looks.
Parent - - By ason1965 (*) Date 01-01-2008 00:17
Anyone got a pic of this? Is it similiar to the cap pass done w/ Tig and walking the cup on pipe, maybe?
Parent - - By flange jockey (*) Date 01-01-2008 01:28
im not sure how to post pics, but i may have a few. f/j
Attachment: 9787020.JPG (81k)
Parent - By fbrieden (***) Date 01-01-2008 20:03
Nice looking weld! Looks as though it was done with FCAW.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-01-2008 20:58 Edited 01-01-2008 21:30
That picture is not a butterfly lace cap, that's a regular old weave.

There are several people commenting on this thread that don't understand what the op is speaking of.

By the way it's only called a texas lace by people in Texas.

I've never seen or heard of an old school laced cap used on anything structural, but it used to be pretty common on some vessels and pressure piping. With Cellulose consumables, the huge jumps out of the puddle would proclude it ever being done with a LoHi rod.

It's basically a wide cap made with exagerated emphasis on the sides and pretty much skipping over the middle. Kind of a series of big, hot tacks progressing in a zig zag type pattern. Not a good description, but the best I can do ; )

JTMcC.
Parent - - By flange jockey (*) Date 01-02-2008 02:21
spot on jt my bad,well now i know how to upload a pic.still not sure about the texas weave though.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-02-2008 04:14 Edited 01-02-2008 11:56
So how do you put a photo in your post???
You're in the UK?

JTMcC.

OK, I might of figured it out.
These welds have many layers of paint so the laced cap isn't as distinct as it once was but it should give you an idea.

Attachment: lace3.jpg (104k)
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 01-02-2008 13:26
6010
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-02-2008 16:30
If you're refering to the weld I posted, no it's not 6010.

If you're talking about something else you lost me.

JTMcC.
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 01-02-2008 17:31
It sure looks exactly like the 6010 butterfly laces I've seen and done.

What do you think it is, JT?
Parent - - By flange jockey (*) Date 01-02-2008 16:46
gotcha jt different,it looked like tig to me. i live in n.ireland.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-02-2008 18:38 Edited 01-02-2008 18:49
ZCat I'm about 99% sure that's shield arc 85, if not then it's the old hippy. State of the art at the time. Of course the bead would've been 5P+ (on edit, NOT 5P+ but regular 5P, sorry bout that), but the fill/cap would be 85 or hyp.

I've seen butterfly caps that were a lot more radical than the one's I have out in the yard, but those give you the idea. I've seen them that look like a bunch of real hot spot type tacks the size of quarters, zig-zagging along, only slightly overlapping.

flange jockey who are you working for and what type of work? Offshore related?

Is that 6013 used in your picture?

JTMcC.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-02-2008 23:30
That was the days of Fleet 5 and 85. Before the p's let alone the +. That is a great example of the lace. You wanna test yourself, start with a 1/8 then try it with a 5. I have heard there were some who could do a lace on 36 and 42 using a 3/16. Days of iron men in this trade.
BABRT's
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 01-02-2008 23:53
I would have bet that was 6013 also. I used to make beads like that in HS but could never repeat that look with a 7018.
Parent - By flange jockey (*) Date 01-03-2008 22:14
im from a shipyard background jt, i now work for a small construction company, fab and maintainance .all on shore. the shipyard bit is the reason i prefer 6013 , that was root filler and cap. f/j
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 01-01-2008 01:34
Me and my brother did a job in 1980 in Freeport, Texas. Fish Engineering on a Mobil offshore production platform. The inspector was an old pipeline guy, everything was 6010 downhill all the way with a butterfly lace cap. Talk about a PITA trying to put a butterfly lace on a 3/4 o'let... I was  a worm 2 years out of trade school, they let me slide on the test  in the hope I would learn how to put the cap on right, I did, eventually. It's a nice looking weld if you know how to do it right.
Parent - By fbrieden (***) Date 01-01-2008 20:06
When I test the Iron Workers, the 3G is a weave all the way out of the joint.... SMAW, FCAW-G, and FCAW-S.
Parent - - By welderdude (**) Date 01-01-2008 03:09
In the commercial mechanical side of pipe welding they don't really seem to care what kinda cap you put on a joint, as long as it holds the test pressure of 120 psi.  There really isn't the threat of any kind of QC in those kinda jobs.  I've laid down a nice looking cap 3/4" wide with a 3/32" 7018 rod.

As long as it serves it's purpose it should be legal.  If the system is only gonna be running at 90 psi peak pressure with chilled water, what does it matter?  If it's high pressure steam, then I agree that there should only be stringers for strength reasons.  But those are just my thoughts...I'm not trying to undermine the system.  :)
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-02-2008 18:59
Thousands upon thousands of high pressure steam, low pressure steam, hot reheats, cold reheats, main steams, downcommers, by-passes, etc are done every year with wide weaves.
In fact, high heat inputs from wide weaves actually can be better (within some limits of course-I ain't talking 3 inches wide) for high temp applications. Large grains don't slide as easily in high temp applications.
And it does seem to be true that most people that have problems with wide weaves have a tendency to be AWS trained as opposed to ASME, where weave width is generally not an issue unless you are working to impact regimes.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-02-2008 20:20
This is being beaten to death, but I'll try once more, the op isn't talking about a regular wide weave, he's specifically asking about what's commonly refered to as a laced cap and that technique isn't allowed in the fields where it once was.

When you try to make this particular discussion about wide caps in general you are only muddying the water.

JTMcC.
Parent - By PipeIt (**) Date 01-02-2008 20:48
I'm from Indiana and I always thought it was called the Louisana whip? Hate to show my age but it was with red P rod that I saw the older guys do it when I was a cub. I grew up on LoHi on fill out.

PipeIt
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 01-02-2008 02:29
i'll see if I can find a few old ones tomorrow
Parent - By fbrieden (***) Date 01-03-2008 18:28
I'd be embarrassed to say I did those or taught someone to weld like that!
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 01-03-2008 17:44 Edited 01-03-2008 18:04
Here's a few:





Parent - By jarsanb (***) Date 01-03-2008 18:34
To jump in this thread, yes Sparky it's still done in some areas around here - midwest. We don't have anything prohibiting this practice in our standards. We will contract in CWI work on some projects. Some of these guys are retired welders and when I show up out in the field I will see laced caps. I'll ask the welders about it and they'll tell me that the inspector said they needed a lace. A couple of our competitors (I guess that's what you call them) require a lace cap still. I'm not a big fan, a waist of filler. Usually when they put a lace on, it's over a weld that was technically done already. The lace was just a waist of time and money. But they get to show off a little I guess.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-03-2008 23:00
Notice the long arc strikes. Wanted to be sure that rod was HOT before you started welding.
Parent - By flange jockey (*) Date 01-04-2008 05:49
banshee thanks,brilliant post, those things are beautiful.
Parent - - By SPARKYCA (**) Date 01-04-2008 16:30
Thanks for those pics, I tell my helpers those arc strikes are there cause the welder wanted to light up the place first so he could see where he was going! 
Parent - By David Lee (*) Date 01-05-2008 21:47
I dont want to beat a dead horse, Weave's are old school.
I noticed from the picture's undercutting on the toe of the weld. Also it look's like incomplete fusion between bead layer's.
( Hence the darker area's between the bead's ).the small pocket's where there is obviously poor fusion.
I'm sure there is alot of disagreement out there, but I stand to say I do not agree with a large weave.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anyone still doin the "Texas weave"?

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