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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / welder comparison
- - By nevadanick (**) Date 12-31-2007 17:30
so i have a 1990 year model   sa-250d with the perkins and a cv adapter and was just wondering how it compares with the legendary sa200's
i am a field mechanic and i have a trailblazer 301 on my service truck and i do notice that my lincoln has a better arc but was just wondering if the sa 200's have even an edge over the 250d's as i have never used a 200.
i use my 250d for side work mostly out of position structural, i burn alot of 1/8 7018,  and .072" NR232 and it works great, and i think its a killer machine, oh and i know a 200 might struggle running wire, i was just wondering about the cc stick arc performance.
My trailblazer is used during the daily grind as i am a mechanic, i think the trailblazer is a good little machine as far as bang for the buck, but my 250d definetly has an edge over it, and i just want to know if the 200 has much better of an arc than a 250d. thanks
Parent - By nevadanick (**) Date 12-31-2007 22:17
Anyone ?
Parent - - By cwf07 (***) Date 12-31-2007 23:33
I don't know about the sa-200 but I have the miller 402D it welds stick,wire,tig great.
Parent - - By nevadanick (**) Date 01-07-2008 15:27
anyone else have experience with the 250's
Parent - By ArcNSpark Date 01-07-2008 16:16
i have a 94 model sa 250 and it runs great but the only problem is i try and try to get a perfect root when i am welding pipe and no matter what i do i rarely get that perfect root. i am realy picky when it comes to putting in a root so that is why i use my 200 all the time. my 200 beads perfect every time but it depends on if i thought i was a rock star at the bar the night before. but the sa 250 is a great machine and very dependable.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-07-2008 16:22
The 250's will work as well as a 200 using LoHi uphill, nothing will work as well as a 200 using cellulose downhill.
The 250's and 300's are more aggressive machines with the consumables commonly used in downhill pipe.
A Lincoln engine driven DC generator w/wire feed module will run what you describe, 1/8" Lohi and .072 232 wire as nice as anything out there. The only thing with the 232 wire is that you stay within the amperage/duty cycle capabilities of the 250.

That's just my take, I currently own two SA-200's and a Classic II and I have run 232 with the 250.

JTMcC
Parent - By nevadanick (**) Date 01-07-2008 17:01
thanks for the advice, and i know im on the ragged edge of the duty cycle with the .072  232, i let it rest a little on long runs and have never tripped the overload, so far .
thanks again
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-08-2008 06:55
what do think about your classic ll compared to an sa200? my buddy has one and says it beads great but ive nver run a root in with it
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-08-2008 14:43 Edited 01-08-2008 14:45
In downhill pipe nothing will beat a 200 in my opinion. My Classic II (and the 300D's I've run) will work but they are agressive machines and make the welder work harder than a 200 will.
My Classic II has the rack rolled half a mark and the high idle slowed down to around 90 ocv. Without those modifications it's a fire breathing dragon in downhill mode, very fluid puddle and won't stack near as much as a 200. It's much better now but still harsher than a 200.
Everyone talks like the new 300D's weld nicer than the old ones but I haven't run a new one yet.

My take.

JTMcC.

My Classic II will run beads and hot pass with the best of them, it's just a bit harsh when filling & capping.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-08-2008 20:34
don't the knew ones have an external high idle adjustment on them for fine tuning?
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-08-2008 20:40
Yes I think it's 150 rpm of adjustment on the 200D's and the 300D/Kubota. Suposed to be coming on the 300D Perkins but I haven't seen one yet.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 06:40
i like the new 200d but i dont know if i wanna give up ac power. I pipeline with my 305 g and i find it beads not to bad at all for tiny machine and it stacks alright when you switch to downhill stick it burns 3/16 good too, done quite a few spools with it and im pretty happy for such a cheap machine but i need to buy a diesel. Kinda leanin towards a 300d what do you think Vantage 300 or 300d kubota if it were your pick? I like a pretty versatile machine i always seem to be doing something different. (Tanks one month , mainline the next, facilty piping, structural, casing bowls, back pipelining)
Parent - By Justin O (**) Date 01-10-2008 13:49
Pipe pro 304 runs a really nice bead and a very slick cap. It doesnt idle up when i run my 3/16 cap.  Only idles up whem you use over 225 amps real quiet kubota diesel.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-10-2008 14:49
What are you using the AC for?
I looked pretty hard at the 200D's but they have had too many reliability problems. Lincoln says it's been a quality control problem and that they have solved it but at over $10,000 U.S. I'm going to have to wait a couple of years and see how they are holding up.
That's why I have a solid 1980 SA-200 on my truck right now. I've also heard of cold weather starting problems with the 200D's. Not with the 300D's tho.
Like I said they are saying the new 300D's are better than the old ones but I'd have to see it myself.
I'm seeing more Vantages and like you said you do lots of different things. Those Vantages are very versatile as far as running wire, lots of aux. AC power, ect. They seem to be reliable machines, but there's a LOT more electronic stuff in them than an old school 300D generator.
I just don't know which I'd pick, I'd find someplace where I could run them both and take a couple of sets of nipples and see. When I built my current welding bed I made it so a Vantage would fit in case I decided to get one some day.
I'm just old school enough I'd probably go with the 300D.I 've debated this same choice for quite a while now. Vantages are cheaper than 300D. The remote for a 300D is simple old rheostat, Vantage remotes (that I've seen) are very touchy, they span the entire output of the machine from zero to 300 amps so you have to be carefull and only adjust them small amounts.
Are you seeing many Vantages up there?
Not much help, huh?  : )

JTMcC.
Parent - - By Justin O (**) Date 01-10-2008 14:54
Miller Pipe Pro 304  Im using one right now and another welder is using a brand new Lincoln 300D and he likes my machine better.
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 18:43
my buddy was runnin a pipeline companies truck with a pipepro on it and he said he had problems with electronics and a couple of the plugs quit workin on it. I got to admit i would buy any kind of truck to run (currently ford) but im pretty partial to lincoln
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 18:39
ya the vantage remote is like my 305 g remote its a pain if you bump it with a grinder cord or your lead it sends you up or down a 100 amps, i definately miss the rheostat remote. Honestly i only use my grinders 99 % of the time off mine but the AC is for my 1/2 makita drill and i like having it on fab jobs other than that i really dont need ac it's just handy. Other than that it really dont matter, i just want a machine that wont go down on me. I guess we are pretty much in the same boat, i like the cv capability too it's nice if your on compressorstaion and you got to build a set of stairs or handrails and you got that suitcase . I run tig but i was taught old school and even though my 305g has lift arc i still run mine on scratch.
You see quite a few vantages now on the backs of guys trucks up here now. Either 305g's , vantage 400's, or 300d's, and the occassional pipe pro. Once and awhile you see a SA200 or a classic2 . I guess im kinda leanin toward the 300d i just like a old school big grey lincoln dc generator( i painted my 305g lincoln grey last spring when i was modifying my skid , it always makes guys do a double take; )
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-10-2008 19:32
Yea we are looking for just about the same things. My solution right now is two machines, the 200 for pure pipeline welding and the Classic II as a very reliable backup and for anything heavier.
My Classic II has the wire feed module so it produces true CV output. I do some innershield & dual shield wire at times.
A Vantage covers all bases, dhill pipe, uphill LoHi, wire, a ton of aux power but I'd still probably go 300D with wire feed module.
I ordered my 250 new with the module installed, but you can add them to a machine later. They ran about $1200 in '98.
A buddy of mine has a new 300D/Kubota but I haven't had a chance to run it yet, and probably won't as I'm going back out pretty soon.
I've seen a lot of broke down Pipepros on the right of way. They do fill/cap very nice tho.
The 300D's seem to be super reliable.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 01-10-2008 19:54
I really should stay out of this discussion but.....we have 27 pipepro's (about 50 total engine drives) in our fleet, all but about TWO haven't needed a replacement board. Good welding machines but electrical problems up the *** for us! No we don't have a leasing agreement, so this is our expense. Some of the units have had mulitiple replacement boards. This is in a six year stretch. I do hear from some 798's that love them. But if you even start to utter pipe..p...r...o....around any of our company welders then your looking for a beatdown.
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 20:38
thats what i heard too ,that they were having reliability issues with the boards
Parent - By jarsanb (***) Date 01-10-2008 20:45
This is by no means a Miller vs. Lincoln add-in by me for anyone thinking about suing me. Most of the rest of the fleet machines are Trailblazer 55D's and the guys love them. And they are heavy.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 20:44
a welding shop was selling a classic 2 for 3500 a few months ago but i didnt relize they were 400 miles away( northern alberta has the same area code) but i kinda regret not buying it. It had 4000 hrs on the clock and i really like the duetz
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-10-2008 21:26 Edited 01-10-2008 21:31
I really like my Classic II, it's been very reliable, it starts easy, It's air/oil cooled so no cooling system to leak or freeze.
The coldest I've ever started it in was 15 below zero, it started right up, and rattled for a while, but those Deutz engines do make some noise compared to a water cooled engine. They are shorter in length than a 200 or 300D and will fit sideways in a pickup bed without any modification. Everything services (oil fill/filter, air filter, fuel filter) from one side so you can put them up against the cab.
It's a real good idea to change the timing belt and idler every 2000 hours or so on them. It takes about 1/2 hour to do it. Other than that it's just clean oil, clean fuel and good filters.
That price seems cheap to me.
I hear the same on the pipepro's, almost everybody has had at least one board problem and they are an expensive board.
JTMcC.
Parent - By Root Pass (***) Date 02-04-2008 01:33
http://www.hybriweld.com/shopexd.asp?id=131

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=85841;hl=mainliner#pid85841

These Fowler shunt coils might be the answer to the agressive nature of the 300d. Put the two together and you might have the perfect machine. Just thinking out loud.
Parent - By J Hall (***) Date 02-04-2008 14:36
I saw where someone was making a remote for the vantage that was more like the old remotes rather than full range.  But now I can't find them.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / welder comparison

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