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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / years of waiting I got my Lincoln sa 200
- - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 00:55
I just got back home from picking up my new used Lincoln sa 200 all copper wound welder. It welds and runs pretty good I just think all it needs is a little more tlc and it will be running even better. I just checked the serial number and the machine is a 1962 that is if the face plate hasn't been taken off another machine like some of you have said on here before or I read it somewhere else but I think it probally is a 62. First thing I gotta do is get a kill switch and then change radiator hoses and flush the system and change the oil plugs and wires and I guess take it from there slowly bringing her back to life. All in all I feel I got a hell of a deal for as old as this thing looks. I've seen other newer then mine and look far worse.

I'm really glad I took some of yalls advice and I rented a half ton to go get it instead of my wrangler man this baby is a beast next project is getting it outta the truck and onto some blocks. I'm thinking I'm gonna make it's own little trailer for it because my 5x8 is to small for it it will just flatten the tires out. LOL  The previous owner said it has been sitting a while but he has cranked it up every now and then to make sure to keep it running which is good but I believe it just needs to be ran for a while.

Chris
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-30-2007 03:30
congrads!!! if you need help or parts..we are here for you(ksellon,rafterg and me!)
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 15:41 Edited 12-30-2007 15:50
Thanks dude I maybe asking some questions about it like what kinda oil to use in it? I was gonna use maybe Castrol oil and was told to use a 10w-30 is this correct and how many quarts does it hold? I looked the year up and it says it is a 1962 the starter hangs kinda below where the bolts hold the oil pan up so I don't know if it is a F162 or a F163 motor can yall tell me? I know I read the difference on here just a few days or weeks ago but I can't remember. I checked the oil lastnight and it wasn't really to dirty just it spelled like old gas so I'm sure the guy had flushed the tank before I got there. Do you think maybe the carb needs to be rebuilt. I mean it ran when he started it and it welded but I think I'm gonna start it and let it run a while to maybe try and burn off whatever crap is in that carb I don't know if that will help it though.

I checked where the battery is and well there is a lttle rusting there just under the radiator and where the battery sat so I gotta work on that before it gets any worse and I'm sure these things were known for rusting there. If I think of anymore which I'm sure I will I will ask.
I gotta go try and get it out the pickup now. I didn't get in untill dark lastnight to do it. Thanks guys for all the help in the past anwsering alot of my questions. lol

Chris
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-30-2007 19:31
what you want to do is weld with it for about an hour strait this will get all the carbon and what not hot then turn up the hear range selector all the way to the left and rheostat the same wya then stick a 3/16 rod in it and just stick to a pice of metal and you will hear it hooler spit and sputter dont let it scare you all kinds of black stuff will come out the exhaust this is what you want do this with 4 or 5 rods til they are flamming when the rod catches fire get another this will clean all the carbon out of you valves and pistons i do mine once a month
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 20:57
no kidding? I found some 1/8th rods at lowes to weld with. The welding store isn't open today. This maybe a dumb question but can I buy a small pack of 3/16 rods? I mean I don't want a big ass 50 pound can of them? you know. Thanks

Chris
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 21:42
ok I got a few pictures of it how do I post? I'm dieing to show yall my new toy LOL
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-30-2007 21:43
some places sell them by the can and others sell them by the pound the smallest i've seen was a 10lb box but thats where i get my stuff and the rods are cheaply made and dont burn real good but your just blowing the rig out
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 21:45
yeah that would be the only reason to buy them to blow the carbon out and man I bet this thing has alot of carbon
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-30-2007 21:46
yup jus get some big rods but remember dont try n cheat it weld with it for a hour or 2 and get thast stuff hot and then turn it up and watch it fly out the exhaust
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-30-2007 22:08 Edited 12-30-2007 22:14
ok so its a little big guys but let me know if these pictures came up for ya?
Parent - By 52lincoln (***) Date 01-01-2008 23:49
Let that be the last to go.You got  tha S--T right there LOL!!!
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 01-04-2008 14:33
It needs to be big rod Chris. The use on small rod on these engines is what causes carbon up. You will have a fireworks show the first time. 10W30 oil -6 quarts with filter.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-05-2008 00:27
6qts? I only put in like 4 and a half thats all that it needed well that is what is said on the dipstick. I'm gonna have to find some big rods or like darin said hook the ground to a 1 inch plate and then the stinger yeah I welded with it some today to really try it out all I had was 1/8th rods and man it didn't even faze it at all. I'm hoping this is carbon buildup in the engine because this clacking sound doesn't sound right in the motor it seemed like it was maybe a little better when warmed up but not alot I don't know if it's a stuck valve or what but I'm not gonna do any big rods till I find someone who can lissen to it before I put any kinda real load on it. I really think this thing hasn't really been run hard but still gotta find someone to lissen to it.

Shad I learned a long time ago you get what you pay for. I don't want any kinda cheap paint no way. This dupont paint can I find it at like Sherwin williams or somthing or do I need to specially order it? I hope the number JTMC gave me is like the same color I have on there because I really don't want to go to any darker gray. I like this color on it. Thanks so much for the help everyone. I know I don't shutup with the questions if it gets agravating just tell me to shutup and I will for a bit LOL Thanks

Chris
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-05-2008 00:45
Nason is owned by Dupont and they make nice paint, it's considerably cheaper than the Dupont counterpart and the reason is exact color match. That really matters if your doing a repair on a $30,000 or $70,000 car/truck and are only painting part of the heep. In that case very small differences can be seen. If you search the internet you'll find that very not many people would use Nason to partially paint a repaired Corvette, but quite a few people will use it to paint the entire car. There are an awfull lot of high very nice hotrods out there with Nason shot on them.
I've used it on several welding machines, and some welding beds.
In the urethane enamels it's far better than what comes from the lincoln factory, and will go years longer without fading.
I wouldn't touch the sherwin williams that they sell in Ohio, it's a pretty poor acrylic enamel and I just can't stand a paint job that looks stylin when you shoot it but is chalky one year later.
That's my take based on painting these old machines for the last 20 years, take it or leave it.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-05-2008 00:49
Thanks JTMcC I was just wondering if I can get the dupont paint from like a sherwin williams or do I need to order it off the net? and if so do you have a link? Thanks

Chris
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-05-2008 01:52
It's an automotive paint, so any parts house that sells auto paint can mix it for you.
You can cross that color code to other brands such as PPG, ect.
If you haven't bought auto paint lately you might be suprised at the cost.
And as always, don't cut corners on the prep, it all shows in the finished product.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-05-2008 02:03
I've never bought auto paint. I've got a friend who is a painter but think I might try and paint it myself I mean yeah I want it to look good but mainly to protect from rust really. I'm gonna have to start calling around to see where I can get this stuff. Thanks alot dude,

Chris
Parent - By Justin O (**) Date 01-05-2008 02:10
Some auto parts stores carry it
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-05-2008 07:51
you can find it at parts houses but try a body shop that shoots dupont if they shoot it there should be a sign out front take 1 of the doors off the machine and take it with you if they have the meter to check it with they can give you the exact same color i personally go for the dark matallic gray next time i paint mine think i'll paint it to match the truck which is white
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 01-05-2008 16:24
Oriellys sells nason what i use and holds up very well is their fast dry acrillic enamel single stage  easy to spray but use automotive reducer to thin for spraying  a quart did my short hood was about 22.00 for the color before you spray i have found that  if you use a metal ecth primer the paint bond really good to every thing < raw metal , sander old paint , ect> but it is a little pricy 30.00 for 1 ot of primer and 1 qt of actavtor mix only what you need because it will set up once mixed  and it mixes 1 to 1  1 qt primer to 1 qt atavator so for 30.00 you get a 1/2 gal this is nason also.

thanks mac

if you have any question  e-mail is meterman3@embarqmail.com
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-06-2008 23:41
well to each his own i shoot dupont cause i'm use it it and it leaves a food unorange peeled look and they have a clear coat that dries to the touch in 2 hours and is ready for delivery in 4 hours with no buffing if you use the right gun and tip
Parent - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-06-2008 23:49
Orange peel is a function of the painter, not the paint.
I know people who can take a $750 quart of House of Color "super duper explosive red", and make a poor paint job but it's not the fault of the consumables.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-06-2008 23:21
i painted my shorthood the SAME color as a 2007 Lincoln Classic III D. just enough metal flake! man, does it shine like a ruby in a goats a$$.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-07-2008 00:16
ruby in a goats A$$ interesting term LOL

I just talked to my friend lastnight about the paint and told me he could probally mix the paint all up for me for free at the body shop he works at. I'll probally have him make up a little tester and see if it really is the color.
right now painting I think is the last thing on my mind. I just checked the timing and all on my machine and it's ok now next weekend I'm gonna go in and check valves and see if they need to be adjusted but I think the timing was off a little man it startes up even better then before but still has this dang clacking or tapping noise.
Darin you're right these little motors aren't to hard at all to work on there really pretty basic.

Chris
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-07-2008 00:33
how far are you from kay at bills welder repair>chris?
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-07-2008 00:46
oh god ummm far over 700 miles. I talked to one of my dads friends today and he was saying it could be a colapsed lifter that could be a problem he;s gonna give me a hand next weekend if he can and another one of my dads friends is gonna lissen to it tomorrow and if he isn't sure then this guys brother is suppose to be incredible with engines.

I read somewhere they said if you have a rod or a rod bearing problem to pull one spark plug wire at a time while it is running and if the sound is different then you could be having a rod bearing problem well I did this and number 3 cylinder sounded different and so did number 2 but really number 3. after I did this I did it again for my dad to hear and to be honest after doing this twice it almost doesn't sound so much like knock and almost like a tapping coming from the valves around number 3 intake or exhaust but before I really get into doing anything with the valves I'm gonna have these guys lissen to it and see what they think other then this noise the engine starts up really fast and runs great well other then the tap or knocking sound. I have heard a engine run with a bad rod knocking but it doesn't sound so fierce as that so I don't know eventually i'll get down to it I just figure the next step would be to check the valves that it would be easier then droping the pan and all gotta take it a step at a time. I knew i was buying a fixer upper when I bought this thing just wish I would ahve really heard this noise when I bought it. Now I have welded with it and this thing is AWSOME I mean I have never welded with anything that welds so great
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-07-2008 02:04
now, you have the "bug"....its a fever!
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-07-2008 02:38
yeah I guess I have caught the bug. LOL  I'm just keeping my fingers crossed it isn't anything more then just the dang valves.
This thing welds so dang good that I mean other welders like a miller bobcat you had to like drag the rod to get it going this thing you just stick it and go. this things welds even better then a redface I welded with a couple of years ago. yeah it's a heavy basterd but I see why now people want these things so bad there the best.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-07-2008 23:16
Don't feel bad i got 1 the same way i ran the valves 3 times they r set at factory spec dropped the pan rods mains and wrist pins are fine chaned the oil pump checked the gov.only thing left is timing gears i sais screw it and robbed parts for my 53 shorty now it just sits there waiying for another part to be used off of it it's a 54 shortyi was told it had been recently rebuilt yeah right
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-07-2008 23:54
just had one of my dads friends lissen to it today he said said it could be a stuck lifter and told me to drain a quart of oil out and add a quart of marvel mystery oil to it and just let it run a hour or two and see what happens see if it can clean up any varnish, other then this sound he thinks it runs great so I'm gonna try this tomorow and if that doesn't help I'll try adjusting the valves and if that doesn't work then screw it I'm just gonna weld with it and if I gotta rebuild later then I gotta rebuild but this guy seems like he really knows engines
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-08-2008 02:00
Do these machines have hydraulic lifters?
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 01-05-2008 16:42
Its 5.25 with filter. Didn't you say you were told the engine was just rebuilt? Then there should be little IF ANY carbon in the cylinders. I sent you an email about the causes for mechanical noises in the engine. But on a fresh rebuild it will not be carbon.

reasons for engine knocks and other noises:
Pre-ignition (incorrect plugs)
Timing - early timing causes knocks similar to carbon
Crankshaft worn or main bearings burned out will cause a dull knock when accelerating under load
Crankshaft end play excessive will be indicated by intermittent knock
Connecting rod bearings worn or burned out
Loose wrist pins
There are about a half dozen more reasons.
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-05-2008 18:46 Edited 01-05-2008 18:49
thanks dang it's gonna take a bit to figure out what it really is I need to find someone around me who knows more about these engines I've got Champion D16 plugs in it if anything it could me the wrong timing maybe do yall have a link to learn how to set the timing? Thanks K
Parent - - By DLWood (*) Date 12-31-2007 01:06
Chris, Your machine looks like the one I just picked up, They could be twins. Run it with some fresh gas for a while. As to oil whatever weight you decide on use an oil that is formulated for diesels, like Delo or Rotella. They have a lot more cleaning properties than gasoline formulated oil. Synthetics are great if the seals and rings are in good shape but since the molecule is smaller leaks tend to develope. Rotella LE has passed all test put to it with flying colors if you can find it, it is new on the market.
DLWood
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-31-2007 01:47
thanks the oil that is in it now really doesn't look that bad but am still gonna change it. I bought some 10w-30 so it's going in no matter what because I don't use castrol GTX in anything else LOL all I use in my vehicles is mobil 1 synthetic but no I think it will work just find that is what I read to use on the Continental website. The gas that was in it was very fresh I think the previous owner flushed the old stuff out but I'm gonna do what Shad said get it good and hot and run a few 3/16 rods and really blow the trash out need to probally change wires and plugs and install a inline filter to help it out. I hear a knocking sound in the motor maybe like the valves are tapping but really don't know maybe these motors are just loud and this thing has been sitting up for a while and probally just needs to be run.

Chris
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-31-2007 03:25
If You need a few big rods to load the machine, ask a fab shop if they have any old improperly stored junk rods, be sure they know why You aren't concerned with the rods being junk.
Parent - - By NWPAwelder (**) Date 12-31-2007 21:01
Looks just like my "63 redface with the exception that yours has had the kill switch/starter button and choke relocated to the front face.  That is gonna be one of my next projects.  Engine looks like the F162.
BTW-  When you decide to change out the plug wires be sure to use nothing but all copper wires.  NOT THE NEW SUPPRESSION STYLE WIRES.
I did this a long time ago with mine and it pretty much wiped out the mag.  Have fun with your new toy!  I love mine.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 12-31-2007 22:10
really all copper wires thanks I didn't know that. The choke and kill switch don't work I need to get a new kill switch and a new choke
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-01-2008 22:45
anyone know a Paint code for this machine? Thanks

Chris
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-01-2008 23:17
Lincoln engine drive paint codes, these are Dupont numbers, you can cross them to your favorite brand of automotive paint. Dupont has an economocal line called "Nason", the paint is considerably cheaper.
The cheaper acrylic enamels fade fast out in the sun. The urethane enamels hold up a lot better and you can still spraw them with innexpensive old school guns.

pre 1991 - 6334

1991 to approx. 1997 - 45832

approx. 1998 to present - B8012

JTMcC.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-01-2008 23:46
thanks dude
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-04-2008 14:59
remember on the cheap paints nason is an inexpensive brand of paint and yes it's easy to use but keep in mind you get what you pay for i use to run a body shop and had a customer want a 500.00 paint job and he got it i used the nason package for like 65.00 and painted the whole truck 4 months later he came back wanting it covered under warranty cause it was fading i couldnt do it if your gonna take the time to paint it od it right and go with dupont i never had any troubles with dupont paint and it's not hard to use you want a singl;e stage color this means no clear coat for a machine i would just get 2 quarts thats way more than enuff it mixes 1-1 so 2 quarts makes a gallon i wouldnt put anymore than 2 coats on it but thats just me if it's done right it'll last for years
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 01-05-2008 16:10
darin here are some pics of that short hood i rebuilt with ter help
thanks
mac
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-05-2008 21:54
nice machine. did you put a 5 speed range selector in it. it came from the factory with a 4 speed range selector. nice, nice machine.
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-06-2008 00:16
hell yeah super nice shorty
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 01-06-2008 04:12
yea what it is  i think a 40 modle sa200 shorty but gen. would not run any equipment so i found a 64 redface  200 used that gen and face panel on the 40 frame and motor boy it wells great ever the old vac idler works great oh it used to be had crank but convered it to starter but i will use the truck batterey and elec system for now looking for a hood and doors   short hood i was the guy that called ya on how to split the gen off thanks for all the info and hwy 60 are tops for their help
thanks mac
Parent - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-06-2008 22:06
glad to be of help.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / years of waiting I got my Lincoln sa 200

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