Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Natural Gas Torch
- - By gshuma (**) Date 12-26-2007 15:28
I did a search for this info but didn't find anything.
A friend has a small repair shop and does a bit of welding. He is now hand cutting with acetylene but he has some large gas wells on his property and has free gas.
Has anyone converted their shop from acetylene to natural? What were the problems? Was it worth it? What pressure is needed.
Any other thoughts.
Thanks
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 12-27-2007 00:10
We used natural gas back in the '70s at a shop and if memory serves me correctly, 40 psi was shop line presure. Your local welding supplier that sells natural gas tips will have card charts (from Victor/ Smith) with the recommended pressures. Just remember that natural gas is about 1500F colder than the acetelyne flame and preheat/cutting speeds are greatly reduced. Keep acetelyne on hand for cutting on over 3/8" material. Who ever installs and services the gas meter can adjust the pressure at the regulator.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-09-2008 05:36
Gshuma,
Hey , well, we've just about kicked this dead horse into multiple after lives. For speed, ease of training and reduction of operator error (since your friend is already used to acetelyne), nothing is going to beat acetelyne simply because it is the hottest flame of any of the commercially available gasses. Reflecting back on my original response, that was "shop line pressure"! Actual at the hose to torch  pressures are going to be much lower. If I were your friend... I'd have already converted over, bought a couple of N/G tips  and be enjoying the FREE ENERGY!!!!!(back at the Armco shop in the 70's, we built "weed burner style torches" with compressed air boosters that would make a 20' long flame for pre-heating 7,000# sub-sea wellhead assymblies, I also think the N/G would have worked fine on thicker stuff only or production schedulers wouldn't allow us the time for preheating) Just like any new variable in proceedure, equipment or materials, there will be a learning curve. Yea, the money saved on just one large bottle of acetelyne will buy a few new tips. ENJOY that free gas!
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-27-2007 13:42
propane leaves a nasty cut tell your friend to stock up on grinding disc also he'll need to change tips in his torches
Parent - By gshuma (**) Date 12-27-2007 13:48
Thanks
I didn't remember that the pressure had to be so high.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-27-2007 14:09
I'm curious - I've never tried natural gas as a fuel - do you have any info on how that compares to using propane? (As far as cut quality goes)
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 12-27-2007 14:15
i used it back in the 80's on a power plant job for zachry it sucks takes longer to heat up you have to go slower and grind every cut lloks like an alligator knawed on it but to each his own some like it some dont
Parent - By toddler (**) Date 12-27-2007 14:15
We have been using LPG in lieu of acetylene. Much cheaper!
Parent - By dschlotz (***) Date 12-29-2007 19:00
I have had a lot of experience with natural gas. See below. It's a wonderful thing.
Parent - By ddrisco (*) Date 12-30-2007 23:35
I must disagree with the statement that propane gives a bad cut.  I work as a tankie, ie build large fuel storage tanks  and I have to say we never use acetylene as it is way to expensive for the amount that we burn... Propane and MAP gas work just as well as acetylene, you just need to change your cutting tip for a MAP OR PROPANE,  the cut speed is a little slower  but I have made great cuts daily with little slag,,, point I am trying to make is if you kknow how to burn to can use any fuel and make a great cut,,
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 12-29-2007 15:36
you will use more oxygen with anything other than acetylene but you will find that if you heating with a rose bud (you need a gas specific rosebud just like cutting tips)that propane and natural gas heat a larger area much easier millwrights use it alot to heat sprockets and such to press then on a shaft easier. I actually found it to cut very good up to 3/8 plate. I have even seen it used to Cut 3" in a scrap yard with cryo oxygen (not a quality cut though just for salvage)
Parent - - By dschlotz (***) Date 12-29-2007 18:40 Edited 12-30-2007 12:51
I used natural gas with an Airco Radiograph track torch machine, the natural gas pressure was 2 ozs. at the torch with 7 lb. line pressure. Oxygen was way up there. The tips were Harris two part. I burned anywhere from 16 ga. through 8 3/4" mild steel. 80 - 90 psi. on oxy and 2 oz. for the natural gas. I tuned the flame to neutral just like you would for an acetylene  oxy. torch. Very clean burns can be accomplished with very little or no tightly adhering slag. With the Harris beveling tip, that had a preheating tip attached, I could bevel through 4" at a 45 degree angle. Remember, the oxygen does the burning, fuel gas is for preheat.

If you are interested in more info contact me by clicking on my name at the top of my post.

Dennis
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 01-03-2008 16:37
Dennis speak true stuff.

Acet. will give you a concentrated high temp quicker per unit than others like natural gas that provide more BTU's per unit and has larger preheated area.

They will all produce quality cuts. But Acet. gets left  in the dust for preheating.
Parent - - By dschlotz (***) Date 01-06-2008 23:48
What do you mean by "speak true stuff'? 

I have been posting on this forum for many years and have not boasted or told a lie yet. I speak from experience when I talk, especially about natural gas burning. In the shop where I got my experience, below 1/2" plate we used acet. 1/2" and above it was natural gas. I don't know the scientific reason why natural gas burned so much cleaner than acet. I just know that it did. I don't know why the Harris type tips I used required 80 to 90 lbs. of oxy. through a 3/8" hose either, they just worked best that way. Because of my experience in true working conditions,I can speak from knowledge.

A guy that did it.

Dennis
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 01-07-2008 15:03 Edited 01-07-2008 15:09
No argument here, just trying put emphases on the fact you made about the Oxygen doing the actual cutting and that you get more BTU's per unit with Natural gas. To my way of thinking it should not be that hard to figure out that once the material is hot enough the Oxygen blows right through it.

In our shop we only use Acetylene to puddle Babbitt or Silver Solder and only because of the small flame.
Parent - - By dschlotz (***) Date 01-08-2008 22:32
Ron,

The oxygen does not blow molten metal away as some may think. It oxidizes it and turns it into carbon ash , to the best of my unscientific knowledge. Otherwize there would be molten metal on the floor, not useless carbon dust. Oxygen does the BURNING! You can cut steel with a saw, shear, ironworker, but you burn it with a torch.

Dennis
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 01-08-2008 22:37 Edited 01-08-2008 22:40
Ok? Did I elude that it did? Never mind. I don't care to discus semantics.
Parent - - By David Lee (*) Date 12-30-2007 23:19
It will do about the same job as acetylene, not as hot but as with acetylene you will have different tip size's for the thickness
It is a 2 piece combo, Your psi on ox is 40 - 50, your psi on the gas 5 - 12 dont go any higher on the gas.
If you set your pressure correctly you can make a decent cut your going to have slag no matter what process you use.
If your using very thin material I would suggest a plasma cutter. up to 3/8".
Faster cleaner and no gas. Perfect for lighter work. It's an arc created by a current as with a welding machine.
Parent - - By dschlotz (***) Date 12-31-2007 13:46
I have to disagree with your statement that "you will have slag no mater what process you use". From 1/2" through 3" plate with natural gas my cuts were normally slag less. They were square at the top and square at the bottom. When you worked six 10 hour days and all you do is run that machine you had to do something to brake up the boredom. I messed with speed and pressures until I could get it just right. My machine had a pre heat lever that would give a blast of oxygen to start the burn just before you put the machine in gear. The start would be square. Speed and heat would control the slag. When I first started to work on the burning table the slag looked like grapes! My goal was no slag. When the plate was 4" and up my goal was to have no tightly adhering slag. That is the kind that you can knock off easily with a scraper-- no grinder necessary.

Dennis
Parent - - By David Lee (*) Date 01-05-2008 21:20
Your disagreement is noted however we may be thinking of hand cutting-vs-machine cutting.
An obvious difference.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 01-05-2008 21:42
I have had alot of success with a hand torch and propylene (not NG).

I had one company owner call me the human track torch when i was younger, but The more i aged, the more i had to scrape and grind!
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 01-03-2008 00:11
Although i never cut with NG I have done alot with propylene and i gotta say, i mastered the slag less cut on anything I cut, and as dschlotz says, if there was slag, a 4" wide scraper did a nice job of removing it!
Parent - By millerman (**) Date 01-05-2008 01:16
I am using etoxs proflame got some getting use to but runs 5 oxy to 1 proflame and its the same as acyl.
mac
Parent - By Bob seND Date 01-09-2008 04:01
If the goal is cheap fuel, he could consider gasoline/oxy cutting. 
Bob seND
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Natural Gas Torch

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill