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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / newbie pipeline questions ...
- - By nek0s Date 01-09-2008 20:55 Edited 01-10-2008 08:40
hi every one , im new to this site and to welding .

i had a few questions about getting into pipeline work .
first off i was wondering how much experience is required , do they take people into apprentice programs right out of welding schools ?
do you even need to go to a welding school to get into an apprenticeship program ?

2nd i was curious about starting out with a welding rig .
would starting out with your own rig be good , bad , pointless ???

3rd does the work slow down in the winter months ?
i own a snow removal company that why i ask .
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-10-2008 12:49
If you are new to welding, you will not start out in pipelining except as a helper. You can BS your way into a test, but at that point they will know your abilities. You can have a PHD in welding engineering and if you want to pipelin, you will test before most every job. Sometimes you will take 2 welding test a week. The contractors can care less where you learned to weld, how much education you have or who the last company you worked for was. They want to know what you can do, today.

A lot of the Boilermaker unions have apprentice programs. 798 which is the pipeline union does not. You buy your helper card, help welders and practice on you own time until you can pass a test.

Pipelining is networking and ability. The longer you work in the busuness and the more people you meet and the more jobs you go on, the busier you will stay. As for seasonal work, a lot of pipeliners work up north in the summer and south in the winter. Oh by the way, you will travel a lot.

You will have available the two worse things a person can have when on a job. Time and money. If you are working 6-10's Sunday is your free day and you have money. Friday the world around is payday on a pipeline. Some guys are broke Monday.  

And you will own you own rig. You own your own company and you want to remove snow on the side or pipeline?
BABRT's
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-10-2008 18:49
You got to go help for a good year and pay attention to everyone you willlearn alot (lineup, tie ins , and most of all people you can call for work). Helping can be pretty boring but pay attention to the big picture and prove yourself as a hard worker . If the spread knows you work hard as a helper he will probably test you when your rigged up.
Parent - By nek0s Date 01-10-2008 20:13
thanks for the reply every one :)

i hope i didn't rub any one the wrong way with my questions as im just curious to find out all i can about pipeline work .
i have worked out doors all my life and love it ! if i knew about pipelining before ... who knows my life might have taken a different direction .

i have no problems working as a helper . i am not the type to think i can walk into a job and show up the guys that have been doing this for years . as a business owner i know all to well about that type of employee . my only concern is getting a shot after i paid my dues and learned the trade .

as for the seasonal work i was asking about . i own a snow plowing / removal company just north of Chicago . it basically runs itself now days but i only have limited time in the winter months .  customers , complaints and those trying to get rich on a slip and fall claim . PITA to say the least :)

anyway like i said before i just trying to find out all i can and where / how to start out correctly .
Parent - - By jarsanb (***) Date 01-10-2008 19:25
As you've already heard from the others, this isn't like getting a job at the local fab shop - start today, don't like it quit tomorrow. It usually takes a few years of investment (time and money) before you'll actually be allowed to strike an arc on a pipeline. Some of the U.A. locals my way do have apprentice programs. That's 5 years as a helper. Only welding at scheduled times at the training facility - which is a pole barn in the middle of nowhere with no heat. But it is set-up fairly nice and does the job well. The rest of the apprenticeship is grinding, brushing, listening, more grinding, listen more....Now I have allowed a few apprentices to take the qualification test and pull journeyman pay but those have been fairly special cases and all were four year apprentices and had to buddy up with their journeyman. They couldn't work alone. That was also a requirement from the local. This is not something you can just 'get into', it's something you have to pry open if your serious. My experiences are with natural gas pipeline, the oil patch may be a different stroy. I have no clue about that.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-11-2008 03:12
From what i hear in the oil field is if you have certs and insurance you can get a job mostly just the insurance but thats just in south texas i dont know about the rest of the states
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-11-2008 03:20
my question is how much is the insurance?
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-11-2008 03:32
you have to get quotes it's based on you and what needs to be covered it differs between companies the co. i work for wanted us to get insurance so i got quotes best i got was 1800 a yr for 1,000,000.00 over the hole 2,000,000.00 max everyone else was 24-2600 a yr so we told them we found it and we need 65 an hr they changed thier mind i'm looking to change they hired a new yard forman and he's a real dick treats me like 1 of his kids and i've about had my fill actually ready to turn his glasses into permaniant contacts dont go out and get it right away get a job first and if they ask for it tell them it expired and you need to renew it that way if you dont need it you're not out the extra expense
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-11-2008 03:57
ya get your quote and find the company but don't activate till you need it and cut it when you don't. Lots of time i didnt need insurance
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-11-2008 04:12
dam pretty high but I guess not to bad from what I heard you can make on a pipeline. Yeah I here ya Shad I've just about had it with my job I've been looking for a couple of months now. Found a local union near me I'm gonna check out but I don't know I'm pretty desperate for a job now
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-11-2008 04:18
A pipeline welder in the United States doesn't need liability insurance as an employee of the contractor.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-11-2008 23:20
no kidding? sure is nice to know that
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-11-2008 23:23
No kidding.

The standard pipeline welder in the United States is an employee of the contractor. The contractor witholds taxes, pays workmans comp, ect.
The welder recieves a paycheck every week.
The welder has to have auto insurance on his truck of course. And his rig is rented by the contractor by the hour.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By texasrigwelder (**) Date 01-12-2008 02:23
exactly i dont know wy everyone says u gotta have ins on here lol , ive never heard of a pipeline welder having ins,

and for the guy asking ? if ur wanting to get in now is the time im only 21 and have been pipeline welding for a year and a half now, you can go union or non , but im 798 kinda gotta go that way though im third gen pipeline welder, but its like every one says ur gotta learn everything u can and practice all my buddies at home see me doin it and think they can ,,, not its just takes time, and u have to want it
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-12-2008 02:36
texasrigwelder,

I believe several of the people commenting are Canadians, and the system is very different there.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-12-2008 02:48
ya up in Can. you got to carry commercial vehicle insurance. But the only time ive carried CGL (personal liability insurance ) is a few jobs on big oilsands facilities . I've never carried insurance while mainlining (cross country pipeline). If you are running your rig through the local 488 pipeline division you get paid similar to you guys i believe (one emplyee check for you(the welder) and check for rig rental (business check). Is that how you guy's do it down in the states?
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-12-2008 03:11
Right, a paycheck for the employee and a rig check for the truck. The welder doesn't have to be a business, just an individual renting his rig to the contractor.

Now there are some, but not many, non union jobs where they pay the welders straight contract but that's just a way to screw the hand out of money. Just like paying the rig more than the arm, trying to rip off the welder.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-12-2008 04:59
is the tax rate for a contractor not good down there? Like right now the job im on is 85 an hour straight contractor rate so ofcoure no OT time or benefits but with write offs i only pay about 9000 in taxes on  100000 which at 9% is alot better than i can do as an employee. I understand you get health care as an employee which can probably play a big part in the states ,personal healthcare  is probably worth it's weight in gold . If you made a 100000 down there what would your tax rate be on that?
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-12-2008 20:33
JescoPressure,

The bugus "independent contractor" thing has been used by the sleazy contractors for several years to get (in effect) cheaper labor.

Anyone working as a true contract welder, with a legitimate business, has to charge considerably more per hour than what an employee see's on his paycheck because of several things like workmans comp insurance, liability insurance, bonding, licensing, office overhead, unemployment, fringe benefits if any, BOTH sides of fica, a percentage for small tools, ect.

Now if the welder working contract understands all of those expenses and what they really add up to there is no problem, but what the sleazy contractors do is add a little extra money to the rate but not near enough to make it really worthwhile and the unknowing will see a big(ger) check and think they are making it big until they find out they are responsible for both sides of the fica plus self employmnet tax, ect, ect. and have taken a pay CUT, plus increased their paperwork  quite a bit, and if they aren't a legit business they and the contractor in particular are breaking the law. The benefit to the contractor is that he pays out less overall, and lessens his office overhead considerably and eliminates quarterly witholding payments.

This has become a big red flag to the IRS over the last several years and they've stopped a lot of it. Several of the states are also going after these guys agressively. Residential contractors (paying framers/roofers, ect) have been the biggest scammers but it's been done in about every field.

None of this applies to legit welding business' working for an appropriate hourly rate.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-13-2008 04:20
what is fica?
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 01-13-2008 04:31
FICA is a payroll tax witheld by the employer from the employee's paycheck.

JTMcC
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 01-13-2008 04:53
ahh ok thanks for the information JTMcC
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 01-13-2008 05:39
The Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) tax is a United States payroll (or employment) tax imposed by the federal government on both employees and employers to fund Social Security and Medicare--federal programs that provide benefits for retirees, the disabled, and children of deceased workers.
Social Security benefits include old-age, survivors, and disability insurance, Medicare provides hospital insurance benefits
Parent - - By g32141 (**) Date 01-13-2008 04:42
Are any of you guys on this pipeline in Lucedale, MS?
Parent - - By bullsnbets (**) Date 01-13-2008 23:12
whats going on in Lucedale?
Parent - - By g32141 (**) Date 01-13-2008 23:30
36 inch gas pipeline
Parent - - By bullsnbets (**) Date 01-14-2008 02:18
whats the pay like down there? shoot me an email if you would. thanks
Parent - - By Justin O (**) Date 01-14-2008 02:27
your not going anywhere.
Parent - By bullsnbets (**) Date 01-14-2008 02:31
i know..... just testin the waters brother....thats not far from the beach. weather down there is alot warmer than it is up here where we're at.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 01-12-2008 03:03
JTMcC I was just thinking that yeah it's all the Canadians who have to carry all that insurance
Parent - By thebandit501 (*) Date 01-12-2008 04:24
Yeah I am am trying to get started in pipeline welding and you say that is best to become a helper first how would I go about getting a job as a helper so I can gain some experience in this field I dreamed of pipelining since I was a freshman learning how to weld in shop class so if any of you guys can help it would be greatly appreciated
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / newbie pipeline questions ...

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