Multinational workforce

Date 12-21-2007 02:12

I don't believe the majority of us are "anti-immigrant". After all, unless I am an American Indian, Mexican, or Eskimo, my heritage is that of an immigrant as well. The real issue is "illegal immigration".

I find it difficult to understand why some people find it perfectly acceptable to be an illegal immigrant in the US. It is a criminal act to go into a foreign country without the required documentation. If I try to go to a foreign country and set up housekeeping and get a job in another country, I can and will most likely be thrown in jail and then be deported. In many foreign countries, I as a foreigner, can not own property or own a business even if I have proper documentation to be in that country.

Maybe I should simply side step the passport and visa the next time I travel overseas. I doubt the authorities will respond kindly when I'm discovered! One of the most difficult times I've had was contending with the Canadian Immigration authorities when an American client asked me to check some work that was being performed in Canada. This was several years ago long before the events of 9/11. Yet, my daughter's brother-in-law was horribly upset when he was stopped at the border for being in the US illegally and working for the last two years in the states without any documentation. I guess some people are of the opinion this is a one way street. They can come here to live and work, but I can't go there for the same purpose. Sorry, I don't buy it.

I have no problem working along side anyone from anywhere, but I do expect them to jump through the same hoops I do when I work in their country. I have clients from Poland, Italy, Indian, Pakistan, Venezuela, Greece, Russia, and the list goes on. They are here legally and they have homes, families, and businesses. In some cases they waited for years to bring their families to the US legally. Welcome to the USA! They didn't sneak into the country in the darkness of the night.

Best regards - Al

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-21-2007 05:51

I couldn't have said it any better Al.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 12-21-2007 06:11

Guy's, you are correct of course. Unfortunately, many American citizens don't have as deep of insights as yourselves; therefore although your opinions are most welcome I think they will act as bait for those who disagree. I myself, as many know, am married to a legal immigrant, we followed every step of the law, by the books. The entire process took about 5 years and around $7,500 (believe it or not, a majority of that cost was filing fee's, more so even than attorney fee's). That said, the actual "right to work" in America only took about 9 months and $3,500.

What's my point? I guess it's simply that until our own government steps up to adequately enforce illegal immigration, it will likely continue. Is it wrong? Of course, but complaining about the poor people who flood our country hoping to make better lives for themselves and their families won't even come close to slowing things down. Every country on earth as it's share of illegal activities, in this particular case there needs to be some sweeping reforms to either stop the flood, or simplify the process.

In just a few years, I myself will become an immigrant, departing America but not giving up citizenship. I can tell everyone here with absolute certainty, the process I go through will be nowhere near as difficult, challenging nor expensive as what my wife went through in migrating here. Just two cents from one who's seen three sides of this coin.

By CWI555

Date 12-21-2007 16:15

I am married to a legal immigrant as well Jon. We had to jump through several dozen hoops to make it happen, but it was done legally.

By CWI555

Date 12-21-2007 16:13

I agree with the legally statement, but as noted, that falls true to everyone everywhere, or should. No one should be "sneaking over in the darkness of night".

By 803056

Date 12-21-2007 19:12

Most of us are the products of our immigrant forefathers. The US is a melting pot of nationalities and religions. The grandparents of my wife and me came through Ellis Island and our children are a mix of Irish, English, Dutch, Scottish, Italian, and Slovakian. Any time there's a problem, I tell my wife those less than desirable traits come from her side of the family! ;)

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas

Best regards - Al

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-22-2007 04:27

Remarkable!!! :) :) :)
"Bring us your poor, your tired, your hungry"... Hmmm, I guess that is past tense!!!
Nowadays instead it's: " You make this for us cheap!!! We send everything to you, and you ship back to us!"

The treaty of Guadalupe and Hidalgo (Speaking of History!) to end the Mexican American War was unceramoniously(< I may have misspelled the previous word) dissolved as a treaty shortly after it was signed by the US Senate through the Tenth Amendment... Some of the provisions in the treaty included the right to freedom of movement, freedom of residence for Mexican citizens that also owned land or were visiting their families across the newly formed US - Mexican border on the US side.. This was written as a guarantee that existing residents of Mexican descent or of Mexican citizenship who had land in what was geographically before the war, Mexican territory, could still maintain ownership of their land without the threat of their land being stripped of them by force, and that their families and relative could without fear of persecution, visit in what was now to become the southwestern United States of America. there are quite a few people with surnames like Rodriguez, Gomez, Figueroa, Gonzalez that are actually related to one another in Mexico, we're talking millions of folks, and those are the types of relatives that were covered in the treaty... In short, not too many people know about this which brings alot of ignorance into parts of the immigration debate.

Now granted, it's not just the Mexicans that are coming here illegally!!! There are many from other countries that the treaty of Guadalupe and Hidalgo do not apply to but for the most part, the Mexicans that I'm talking about that for centuries have travelled across the borders without any need for a visa, imposing the restriction of having to obtain a visa in order to immigrate to the US is, and will always be a slap in the face!!! Everyone else that comes across illegally needs justice to be served -Capish??? That is, unless they immediately enlist into our armed forces, provided they are able and willing of course!!! That should take care of at least sending enough troops over to Afganistan, But that's another story

Anywho, look for example, the differences in US immigration policy towards Cubans and compare that with rhe Haitians or Dominicans that come here illegally!!! It's a classic example of what's wrong with our existing immigration policy - it's schitzophenic!!! It is one of many examples of preferential treatment for certain folks over others who have in many ways similar circumstances... That's one of the reasons folks from different parts of the world tend to view Americans that way also unfortunately!!!

For decades we as a nation, were looked upon as the just, benevolent, Righteous nation!!! Where people of all lands were welcome... Hence the statement: "Bring us your Poor, Your Tired, Your Hungry"
Nowadays, if I even look like an illegal alien to some of the folks I encounter in my travels, my heart drops because, I'm actually being stereotyped by someone that does'nt even have a clue as to where I come from.
I am then asked in a very condescending manner: "Hablas Ingles?" My response to them is always the same when I reply: "Wow you have eyes that are capable of analyzing my DNA, and your brain is capable of determining beyond a shadow of a doubt, based on the data deseminated from your eyes that I am of hispanic origin, probably here illegally... Am I correct so far??? Because if it is?? Then you are most definitely REMARKABLE!!!" :) :) :) They look at me in bewilderment, and walk away. ;)

So my point is, Please do not stereotype people of possible hispanic descent, because some of us are Americans first, hispanic second!!! I'm talking about the folks that do NOT Demand their so-called right to come here illegally because, they already earned their own right of citizenship, yet many are being persecuted as second class citizens!!! Especially when in a conversation that gets the response from my own admission of being of hispanic heritage, but a Proud American where the other person replies: " So you're NOT from Mexico???" or "So not everyone that speaks spanish are from Mexico???"

I got that from someone the other day, and I just started laughing out loud in disbelief that this clown was that ignorant!!! He thought that I was nuts and I replied: "It takes one to know one!!!" C'mon folks!!!! We're better than that??? Are'nt we??? What would Jesus Christ say about this immigration debate??? That is the question we must ask ourselves!!!
Merry Christmas to you too!!! Everyone else too!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 01:56

I think Jesus Christ would say the world belongs to everyone come one come all to where ever you seek your destiny.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 02:08 Edited 12-24-2007 02:11

Hank, a funny for you.

When we first got back to the states and my wife began working (Dental Assistant) she was, of course, asked every single day where she's from (to the typical American, she sounds like she has a British accent)... well, when she'd tell people New Zealand, she'd get responses like "Oh, you speak very good english for having only been in the country a few months" or, "New Zealand? Isn't that near AUSTRIA?" Or yet another (typical) "New Zealand, oh, I've always wanted to see Australia." One of my welders even asked if New Zealand was near Alaska!!!!!! He'd seen fishing boats on "world's most dangerous professions" about fishing off the coast of Alaska, and many of the Captains were from New Zealand.

So, to my fellow American's; there is a very, very wide world outside of our own borders, unfortunately, we never hear much about it, nor are we adequately taught things in school about what's outside of our own cities, states and country. Take a trip overseas, learn what the rest of the world is like! You might be surprized and actually enjoy meeting new cultures!

Diversity is what made America great, many of the things we enjoy today, taking for granted, were provided by our immigrant population, welcome the legal one's, and ask our government to do something serious about the one's who aren't legal.

Merry Christmas to all and a very Happy and prosperous New Year!

Jon

By CWI555

Date 12-24-2007 05:08 Edited 12-24-2007 05:11

Henry,

Having spent considerable time in Mexico working I've learned a few things here and there about their history. The first thing I would point out is, no European country rightfully owned any part of the America's. It was taken by force by Spain, France, and England primarily. What is now Mexico was invaded by Spain in 1519.
Point being, if anyone has a right to complain about getting screwed, it was the native peoples. All the European countries involved reneged on multiple "treaties" with them.

Moving onto modern day:

Some more things I've learned from my time in Mexico.
Not all persons crossing the border illegally are Mexicans, many if not the majority are from central and south America, but as many as there are, Mexico has stricter immigration laws than the U.S. Many are caught and jailed by the Mexican government crossing Mexico's southern border. In short, they have just as big a problem with illegal immigration as America does, only for Mexico, the law enforcement has a bit more teeth than America does in dealing with it. BTW try jumping through the hoops to get a Mexican FM3, It's just as big a pain as going the other direction.

As for Hispanic blood and language, I've worked in Spain, Venezuela, Honduras, and Columbia. While my language skills still leave something to be desired, even my ignorant ears can detect the difference in language. Using English as an example Australians, New Zealand, South Africa, and many of the other "English speaking nations" all have one variety or another of the same language.

Being able to pick up on that is one of the primary things I've learned through travel.

Going back to Mexico, even within Mexico there are differences in the language, just as there are from the south to the north in the U.S.
Contrary to popular belief, the majority of Mexicans have no desire to "make a run for the border". Why should they? They may have a weaker economy, but it's not that weak.
They have a thriving culture, and in general, they are very proud and honorable people and have treated me and my family well, many of which I now call friend.

The point to that is, being from Mexico is not some sin to be ashamed of, but rather part of their heritage, and something to be proud of. Even if some ignorant person makes the wrong assumption, maybe kindness and education would be a better example than sarcasm. If they are that ignorant to have made such an assumption, they definitely need at least the education part.

I've made many friends in the countries I've had the pleasure to visit. I married one of them in the Philippines who immigrated "legally".

Thats my perspective on the matter for what it's worth. I still say the Americas as a whole had better take a page from Europe and learn how to work together rather than against each other. The world has just gotten to small to do otherwise.

Regards,
Gerald

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 05:35

Gerald, very eloquently stated and to the point, while providing good background to support your stance. I too spent a couple of years in Mexico and absolutely loved the country and it's peoples; I absolutely agree with everything you say!

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 07:13

I think that the US needs a better way of dealing with forign workers, and agree that The Americas should be better able to cooperate in this matter. There are laws in the US for migrant workers that are based on a short duration job for crop work, but there seems to be little for longer duration jobs. I think there should be a legal way for non citizens to work legally that doesn't necesarily lead to citizenship, and a way for employers to find out in a timely fasion if a prospective employee has legal work staus.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 15:28 Edited 12-24-2007 18:17

Thanks for sharing!
However I disagree with your qualifications in being hispanic or as they say in the west coast: "Latino!!!"
One must be one to see and experience what my eyes, ears have seen, and heard... One can sympathize but, unless you're one of us then you cannot understand the pain, suffering and ignorance we feel.
Laughter and humor only works for so long yet ,when your dignity is constantly being questioned for no viable or apparent reason then one can no longer stay neutral.

Respectfully speaking, you totally missed the points I was making so, I invite you to reread my last post.

The then United States of America was not, and still is not part of Europe today although things may change once again. Sure, the European nations constantly reneged on their treaties but, it does'nt mean that it was the honorable, or righteous thing to do!!! We as a nation were supposed to be different from the Europeans as far as honor and dignity was concerned, and respecting the native peoples customs and culture - yeah right!!!

As one who is a descendant of the now extinct Taino natives who were around when Columbus came to the Island of Hispanola which is now the Dominican Republic & Haiti, I know all too well of the atrocities committed to, and by my distant relatives, and I believe Genocide definitely fits the bill in the history of Spain, and it's conquistadors whom are also part of my blood line...

Believe me!!! I do know history well enough not to be lectured by someone that quite frankly is out of their own league!!! You may not agree, and I can live with that so, it's a good thing that we can agree to disagree! :) :) :)

Btw, Merry Christmas to you, and your respective families!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By ason1965 (*)

Date 12-24-2007 19:01

Henry needs to come S Tx to see the discrimination Texans face daily. Not from the usual source but from the Mexicans that come over expecting their every whim catered to by US and Texan taxpayers while our elected and unelected officials grant them most every wish. Want to see third world? Come to Camargo and Laredo Tx. Want to see political activism hang out at a La Raza rally. The term means 'The Race', the latino race in particular. You see to the average Mexican, Central or S. American race is everything. While Euro-Americans are told to hide any conscious reference to race awareness Latinos are allowed to revel in it and benefit from it in many many substantial ways. Ways that most whettos don't. I am not crying, really wouldn't care if weren't for the way my children are singled out by hispanic teachers in classes full of hispanics living off my hard earned tax dollars and told that they and their parents owe them because of past slights real and perceived. Oh but the brutality and savagery and foolishness of Latino culturas is glossed over and completely ignored. They come up here wanting to escape their socialist nightmare then turn right around and want every state welfare benefit known to Americans. So Henry, don't try to put that racist clap trap university bred sentiment on the readers here please. I've seen and grown up around some of the biggest racist known to man and they are colored.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 20:33

Opinions are like - well most of you get where I'm coming from :) :) :)

I suppose that you are the S. Texas expert on race relations??? You ought to be ashamed of yourself!!!:( :( :(

Merry Christmas to you and your family anyway!!!
May god bless you by removing the ignorance that infects you!!!

Henry

By ason1965 (*)

Date 12-24-2007 22:10

No you are right Henry, I guess opinions like yours and mine are just like that. Just responding to yours.

Merry Christmas Too a very smart Welder! I enjoy reading your welding posts even if I disagree with your opinion on race.

By CWI555

Date 12-25-2007 06:47

Henry,

I am by no ones definition out of "my league" on history, nor was I "lecturing". Nor did I ever say nor imply reneging on treaties on anyones part was an honorable thing to do.
I have my opinions and beliefs, of which no one will shake.

Assumptions are a dangerous thing when the assumption is made in a negative light. Maybe we can agree on that at least.

Respectfully,
Gerald

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-25-2007 10:43 Edited 12-25-2007 11:07

Gerald!

Yes we can agree most of the time!!!

You all can have all the opinions and beliefs you want but, unless you are (hispanic) one like I am, none of you will ever know what it's like to be one first hand!!! I have experiences first hand that shapes my opinions, and beliefs which no one can shake either!!! You can have wives and relatives to share their experiences to help you better understand their suffering but, you're getting it second hand!!! You're not experiencing it first hand as a Hispanic American!!!

I totally agreed with your initial post, and that was'nt the problem... The problem started when you responded by writing: "The point to that is, being from Mexico is not some sin to be ashamed of, but rather part of their heritage, and something to be proud of. Even if some ignorant person makes the wrong assumption, maybe kindness and education would be a better example than sarcasm. If they are that ignorant to have made such an assumption, they definitely need at least the education part."

First of all I'm not Mexican!!! I'm American!!! call a Mexican or Mexican American a Cuban or Puerto Rican, and see what kind of response you get from them!!! Call an Apache a Comanche, or a Seminole a Cherokee and see what you get as a response!!! So as far as being a Mexican is concerned, it's NOT part of MY heritage and after all, I was referring to myself, not any Mexican in particular!!! A misunderstanding on your part... Not a lecture??? Hmmm, it depends on who's giving it, and who's receiving it...

"But you speak spanish... I thought everyone that spoke spanish in this country was from Mexico." the reason I bring this up is because at first, I tried to be kind, and educate this, and many more individuals at first only to get nowhere fast so, I turned to sarcasm because frankly, it worked!!! Then there's the reaction I get when I confide to folks that my father was from Cuba which almost automatically brings up a comment on whether or not I'm communist or did he come here off a banana boat, and many other ignorant comments...

The reality of my family's history is that my grandfather immigrated to the states way back in the late twenties to learn and study English and History as a student at the University of Kentucky... He knew about ten words or so when he started only to graduate with a bachelor's degree in English in just over two years, and a Masters degree in History later!!! my father went to the University of Miami, played offensive tackle for the football team, and graduated with a Bachelor's in Mechanical engineering... Upon graduation he immediately joined the Army Corps of Engineers, served with honor, and distinction in Korea which earned him a spot in Panama afterwards to help plan in the building of the Pan-American Highway...

He was very proud of his service to our country, and so am I but, when Castro took over, he used to hear the brunt of negative, ignorant comments towards him when he revealed his birthplace, and was persecuted both by strangers and his so-called friends alike with off color ribbing that no one with any dignity had to put up with!!! in the eighties during, and after Castro released the folks coined "The Marielito's" via Mariel Bay in Cuba, he had to put up with more abuse, and I remember when he felt so ashamed about how the bottom of the barrel of these Cuban's were causing many american's to assume that every one, whether they were from Cuba or had relatives that were from there, were criminals or mentally insane...

He was also detained for questioning for what seemed like forever to his children, and my mother!!! Totalling a week in custody by the FBI which for the life of me, I do'nt remember which year in the late sixties it occurred but, the so-called reasoning was because, they believed he had ties to the Puerto Rican Liberation Front!!! They released him once they found out that they made a very unfortunate mistake which they admitted to my mother and his parents yet, were in denial that his reputation had been nonetheless tarnished with suspicion from others who found out about his ordeal of being falsely accused of something he would never do because of the type of individual he was!!!

When I saw that, I made it a principal of mine not to let anyone get away with assuming that I because of my heritage, was anything other than a stand up person - PERIOD!!! I would also get similar responses from admitting that my mother was from the Dominican Republic, and at first I tried to kill them with kindness so to speak only to get nowhere FAST!!!

You want to talk about assumptions!!! You assumed that I was reacting instead of thinking it through in order to communicate to these ignorant people!!! I mean it's like saying that all of the native tribes of North America were and still are savages, or they speak the same language all the while this statement is being said to you in a very hostile manner!!! I do'nt think that one who is of native descent will take too kindly to that kind of ignorance by killing them with kindness!!! Let's be realistic Gerald!!!

So when somebody assumes that I'm a Mexican, or thinks that "Well you all speak the same language", or "Do you like eating Tacos & Quesadilla's???" or, "Do you like Taco Bell??" I no longer let it slide so to speak...
I most definitely overwhelm them with sarcasm, and this will NOT CHANGE!!! 99% of the time sarcasm can be very educational when used in the correct manner, and this is from first hand experience, not just from my opinion in using the tactic to get my point across.

Do'nt get me wrong because, I have many Mexican American friends, and have come to know quite a few of the so-called criminals!!! Both are wonderful, warmhearted folks who have taught me much about their own culture yet, we both understand that we have many differences despite being Hispanic or otherwise known as "Latino"

Also, we mutually understand that assuming that we hispanics are all the same, and that we would be at the very least, slightly insulted if other folks assumed that it was okay to call a Cuban/Dominican American, a Mexican or visa versa... Try telling a Colombian that you thought they were Cuban or Peruvian, and see what type of response you get... I guarantee that it will NOT be a warm one!!!

Like I said, I'm an American first and hispanic second!!! Those folks that are making such a fuss about immigration issues like "La Raza" and others, DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!! YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!!!

To me this debate, and all the subsequent arguments are finished as far as I'm concerned, and I will not participate in any further exchange, or response!!! So let's end this thread on a high note please. Merry Christmas to all and, PEACE ON EARTH!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 12-25-2007 11:48

Dayum!!! Now that was a vent! lol!!! Hank, I think, if you go back and read Gerald's post very carefully, he ackowledges other hispanic heritage lines, not simply Mexican's. I believe he just came back to Mexican's because of his experience there and also the Mexican people are the one's who seem to get the blunt of sterotypical illegals. Please, just go back and re-read his post again. I do hear ya tho, loud and clear about experiences related by caucasians regarding their understanding of how it actually feels to be on the receiving end... kind felt a little "out of place" when I first visited New Zealand and Australian and Korea, etc., Merry Christmas buddy, hope you have a great New Year!

By ason1965 (*)

Date 12-25-2007 15:58 Edited 12-25-2007 16:19

Henry said: "Ignorance sounds like your first and last name!!!
I will not dignify a response to someone that does'nt have a clue what it's like to be an american born and raised hispanic whose parents both came to this country legally in the forties!!!

It's people like yourself that make this country so polarized by claiming that most of the hispanics are on welfare or leeching off the government in one form or another!!!

Do your research before you start to make claims that are not factual!!! Texas is NOT the Center of the United States of America nor will it ever be!!! There are more "whites" on welfare in this country than hispanics!!!
Get your facts straight!!! Ohhh wait I forgot!!! You're too ignorant and racist to do so!!!"

One more thing chump!!! I did'nt go to a university clown!!! I went to the school of hard knocks, The United States Navy where they turn blockheads like yourself either into great men and women or, turn folks like yourself into sewage, and your basic community college!!! Did you even graduate High School???
Grow up, Wake up and smell the coffee - Jerk off!!!

So this is the kind of person Henry the great submarine welder is? A typical hispanic hothead. You know nothing about me yet because I tell you about my personal experiences in Texas which I can back up with fact you presume to know a lot about me or Tx. So typical of people like you Henry. Too bad I would of thought a person could learn from someone like you but it seems you don't have much to teach me or anyone else but how much you think you know which isn't a heck of a lot.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-25-2007 17:04

All, this needs to stop. When we disagree that is fine, when we start responding like this thread is going, it shows a distinct lack of class on everyone's part. The moderator should step in here NOW!

BABRT's

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 11:27

dbigK is right, let's try to keep this civil guys, the "personal attacks" need to be put to rest. I can understand how these conversations can get a bit outta hand, folks can't see each other's expressions, only typed words on a page, so the words can be perceived to have sharp edges when they may or maynot have been meant that way(been there, done that). So in light of that, lets try to choose our words wisely.
OK, carry on.
Merry Christamas to all. Hope everyone had a great day with family and friends. If you didn't get that opportunity, I'm hoping you will be together soon.(especially thinking of our military families that were seperated for the holidays)

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 12:12

Yep, speaking only for myself, and no one else, I should have left it as a good summary with the first couple of postings and let well enough alone!

Hey, we're all in this together, let's have a great New Year and put all this extraneous stuff behind us! After all, what we REALLY care about here is improving our skills and knowledge and sharing what we've learned from each other with those who have joined us in this wonderful Forum!

Regards!

Jon

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 03:13 Edited 12-26-2007 03:32

I forgive you "ason1965"!!!

"Hispanic Hothead" huh? well at least I did'nt call you a racist remark... I may have called you names in a private message without referring to your race but, at least I did'nt do it in public!!! Who overstepped the lines???

So you can tell just by reading??? You must think you're always right huh? How disappointing!!!
But like I said before, I forgive you just like God does!

Good luck to you, and please do'nt stay too angry ;)

By ason1965 (*)

Date 12-27-2007 19:16

I am sorry, didn't mean to get mean and let it get outa hand. Hope you accept my apologies, I was wrong to do what I did. I am truly sorry.

Sincerely,

Dean

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-27-2007 19:41

Apology Accepted Dean.

Respectfully,
Henry

By webbcity (***)

Date 12-27-2007 20:14

henry , glad to see you guys buried the hatchett , and not in each other , hope you are feeling ok and best wishes for the new year . please keep up all the good things you do on the forum , alltho i haven't been able to answer many of the post , it has always been a pleasure to read yours , you devote much time to give the answers . good luck . willie

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-27-2007 20:42

Thanks Willy!

I hope things things are well for you also!!! I have enjoyed reading your posts too!!!
Right back at ya as far as wishing you the best for the upcoming new year!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By webbcity (***)

Date 12-27-2007 21:04

henry , i realy enjoy your post but i don't have a computer so can't see all of the attachments but have been able to view some of your pictures they are very nice , mabey this year i'll get a computer and learn how to work it some , my boy and nephews are wizzards on then but they don't take me into confidence all the time to show me much so i feel like an old dinasaur , unless things go bad and they need my help on other welding and mechanical repairs , it helps me to know that i'm still usefull . good luck . willie

By meliz G (*)

Date 01-12-2008 06:42

well im a mexican american and i have no problem with illegal imigrants i mean the ones that come across in the middle of the night risking their lives to make a few dollars thats how bad it can be back home even a cuban family jumping on a raft risking death just to come here it makes me proud and give God thanks i was born here i mean there is plenty of negetivity going on you know supposibly they run our hospital bills up, medicaid this and that but i have no problem in a man trying to make a better living if their is americans with all the resources living paycheck to paycheck living in gettos for generations and generations what makes you think a poor immigrant is going to sit around looking at his poor family trying to save money and wait few years if lucky to be able to come over here when all he has to do is walk across the border you got to remember the rich ones stay in mexico living it good all i can say is lets put ourselves in their shoes and i will proudly pay my taxes and help those illegals in medicaid than to be paying for all those prisoners in jail us citizens or not like they say its just my two cents

By ctacker (****)

Date 01-13-2008 01:43

does that mean you support the drug dealers and other undesirables that make money off selling kids drugs and enrolling them in gangs to support themselves?

By meliz G (*)

Date 01-26-2008 02:40

every race has its scums including some immigrants their is white black mexicans drug dealers and gansters in prisong right know so you know ctacker i dont support those but what i do support is like a i said a man who is trying to offer his family something better and for all of yall that are sooo against illegal imigration let me ask you this if you was born in mexico or cuba etc living in poverty would you cross illegaly to offer your family something better and if you can honestly say no i wouldnt cross i seriously feel sorry for your family but its also a way of thinking i have personally heard many americans say man if i had to work for mine so does my son have to work for his

By ctacker (****)

Date 01-26-2008 03:29

I invite you to read the second post in this thread, Al sums it up pretty good, I agree every race has its scumbags, and no i wouldn't go into another country illegally, I just got my passport so i can go legally, I wouldn't want to chance going to jail and being deported and then having to worry about my family! Its not hard to come here legally, and i resent having to pay for the bills of illegals when my own family has to pay their way or go without because illegals are taking from my tax dollar! I got no problem if they come and pay their share of taxes. I pay my share and my family suffers because the millions of illegals do not pay their share!
I will not debate this any more, this isn't the place. have a good night
Carl

By meliz G (*)

Date 01-26-2008 04:33

whinners i love them blame some one else for you not having unuff money and have to go with out well im 24 year old tax paying first generation us citizen father of one and one in the way put wife thru dental hygine school single hand pipe welder and product of an illegal imigrant i give thanks to him for having the guts to be a couple of dollars a day ranch hand at 14 and had the courage to hold strong knowing it would get better well it did and im the product and so is my older brother his a chemical engineer and my younger brother going to school for law enforcement well we will try to pay'' taxes'' my father didnt pay well i dont resent paying bills for illegals like you said you did but i do for all those people in jail and all those generations and generations of americans living in getthos and trailerparks where they dont have any kind of work ethic i mean they have all the resources all the resources needed and their you have generation upon generation they never came up still on medicaid well you said its not hard to come here legally that is pure ignorance i dont know how you come up with that crap here is a quote from your boy AL remember im talking about poor illegals no money

They are here legally and they have homes, families, and businesses. In some cases they waited for years to bring their families to the US legally. Welcome to the USA! They didn't sneak into the country in the darkness of the night.

Best regards - Al

ps did you catch that they had homes families and buisnesses, that equals to money in my book and AL says they waited years to bring families to us legally so if it took them years to bring them here with money and not being in a bind what makes you think a poor imigrant is going to easly bring his family here legally with no money if all those americans living in getthos and projects had half the work ethic an immigrant had the economy would be in better shape I SAY AGAIN I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A MAN TRYING TO GIVE HIS FAMILY A BETTER WAY OF LIFE God bless

By kelly_b (*)

Date 01-13-2008 02:59

You said it right Al!!!

By Kix

Date 01-14-2008 17:50 Edited 01-14-2008 20:23

Wait till ya get hit by one that has no insurance. Illegals can get credit cards over here, but not insurance. It's because of them it took my wife 5 d** try's at the DMV to get a d** Wisconsin drivers License. I'll shut up now because this subject can lead into a bottomless pit.

By johnnyh (***)

Date 01-14-2008 21:09

Cut it off now, John...this one could get bad.

By UCSB

Date 01-14-2008 22:24

Agree with Al.
I don't have a problem with people that come in LEGALLY.

The year is 1907.....but the speaker knew what he was talking about.

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in
good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be
treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American,
and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man
who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one
language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one
sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Every American citizen needs to read this!

Ted tells it like it is

By MBlaha

Date 01-15-2008 07:39

Great piece UCSB. Hats off to you for posting this.

Mike

By makeithot (***)

Date 01-15-2008 17:33

How then do you account for the millions of americans that only speak spanish?

By 803056

Date 01-16-2008 23:00

You do the same thing as the Italians, Polish, German, etc. did; learn to speak English so you can be a functional member of the society you elected to live with.

If I decide to live in another country, be it Japan, China, even Venezuela, I bet they will expect me to learn their language. I doubt they will change their national language to English for my sake.

The failure to learn to speak English in the United States is a self imposed limitation on the ability to earn a living and relegates a person to lower tier jobs. Life being what it is, employers will hire an English speaking person before a non-english speaking person. As a resident of the US, there are plenty of programs available, usually at the tax payer's expense, where they teach people to read and write in the English language.

Al

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 01-17-2008 04:31

it should be required to speak english for jobsite communication and if nothing else SAFETY !!!!!!! just my .02

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 01-17-2008 08:11

I concurr 100%!!!
The language spoken in the government of United States of America is English...
The rule of Law governs this country so, everyone who wants to participate as a citizen, or even a resident must learn how to understand the law in order to protect themselves by understanding their rights, limitations of those rights, and the responsibilities required from them as they are granted the privilege of being either citizens or legal residents of these United States!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By CWI555

Date 01-17-2008 23:00

One thing I'd add to that Al, the only country in your list I haven't worked in is Poland. For the rest, they were a lot less forgiving in the language barrier department than the same for them being here. The only country I've been to that was equally or more forgiving of the barrier was Mexico.

Regards,
Gerald

By hogan

Date 01-15-2008 19:17

thanks UCSB, one of my favorites

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-30-2008 16:29

Hello everyone. Here are a few of my random thoughts on this subject base on my views and experience. I have filled some of these in during short breaks from work .

I have had an interest in this topic because of my own views on racism and prejudice. In the past 5 or so years I have come across quite a few Hispanic people working around the area. One if the keywords in the phrase "Hispanic people working.. " is WORKING.

I have seen and heard supervisors talk negatively about Hispanic workers who in my opinion were equal to any others in the shop in skill and far above most in their work ethic. If it looks like racism, sounds like racism, and acts like racism its....

Many of us shop around for the BEST DEAL on a car. Looking to get it at the best price regrdless of the the fact that one dealer may reduce their price to get a sale. Yet when someone in the workforce takes what he can get for the best deal he can find at the time we look upon them in a negative manner.

What if a car made in the US by people earning the average wage retailed for $10000.00 and a similar car was made by a company in the US but thier employees made 1.5 times the national average wage but cost $12,000.00 All features the same on the car. Which one would we buy?

We are one of the richist countries in the world. Our country was built by people willing to work at nearly any job. Now in organized construction labor we scoff at actually breaking a sweat.

Working for a living can mean many things to many people. Is a "living" a $35k truck that I can drive around in with a $20k bass boat parked in the garage at my 5 bedroom house that my wife and I live in ? Or is it being able to have a place to live, food to eat, a 1985 Nova/Toyota, and the ability to be morecomfortable than most in the rest of the world?

The country was built on freedom and work. We have laws (some that need to be enforced and some that need to change) regarding immigration. Anyone who is in this country legally should be treated fairly. Not only by employers but by co-workers.

How many people here would go to Australia to work for $100.00 per hour with expenses paid ? How about South Africa, Arab Countries, Canada, etc.

I have seen people complain about someone with a foreign background working and taking a job. This same persone who is able bodied and skilled will file for "unemployement compensation" because their particular craft does not have a job they want to go on right now. "Get a job!"

By johnnyh (***)

Date 01-30-2008 18:42

Morning Safety Meetings are very effective when half of the jobsite "no comprende".

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-30-2008 18:49

Being able to communicate what is required on the job is definately a necessity.

By hogan

Date 01-30-2008 19:34

being able to communicate in the language of the country is required! otherwise you are seen as apathetic or not mentally capable. this goes for natives and immigrants