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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.5
- - By mogley01 (*) Date 08-25-2007 00:04
Yes I know this might be a stupid question but is 02 the most up to date book
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 08-25-2007 02:06
Yes it is.
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 08-27-2007 13:06
A new edition (D1.5M/D1.5:2007) is at the printing/proofing stage and will be available in a few months.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By mogley01 (*) Date 08-30-2007 21:09
Thank You
I am glade to see that some people out there still can be nice to people. Comments like Chet is why I dont ask a lot. I am trying to learn all that I can about becoming a CWI, I am a very good welder, But I was brought up to learn all that you can. So once again Ross thanks
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 08-30-2007 22:00
I think he meant 2002 IS the most recent not (Yes it was a stupid question)
Parent - - By mogley01 (*) Date 08-30-2007 23:33
Well know that I have thought about it I think you are right . Sorry Chet. I think I miss understood what you was saying
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-30-2007 23:47
I actually laughed out loud when I read this one..

You really must give Chet the benefit of the doubt on this one..

He has a funny bone... don't think he has a mean one.
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 08-31-2007 01:36 Edited 08-31-2007 01:38
Mogley,

Chet's right that the 2002 is the most current bridge code. 2007 is coming soon. Chet didn't mean what you thought.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-31-2007 01:47
Yes he did!

Just kidding, I'm with Lawrence on this one. I'm still laughing.

Anyone that wants to be a CWI has to have a hide that thick enough to believe Chet's reply meant the 2002 edition is the most recent.

As an inspector, if you take offence at every double meaning thrown your way you'll end up in the funny farm.

Keep laughing, it's the only way you'll survive!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 08-31-2007 01:59 Edited 08-31-2007 02:08
Mogley,

If you are going to test for CWI, there are three parts to the test. Each part is two hours long. Part A is about 150 questions on welding, inspection technology, symbols, metallurgy, safety practices, etc. Part B is about 50 questions that you answer about plastic replicas of welds, using real inspection measuring tools, judging the acceptance of the welds according to a sample standard that is provided.  Part C is a test in which you find the answers to about 50 questions in a code book that you choose. It tests your ability to use a code book under time pressure, I guess. You can choose to take Part C using either D1.1, D15.1 railroad code, API 1104 (pipeline code), ASME boiler code, or the D1.5:2002 bridge code.  AWS holds classes on all three parts, but for Part C they only have classes on D1.1 and API 1104.  I think many people consider the API 1104 the easiest Part C option to pass, and if you do, you are certainly qualified to inspect according to any other codebook (like D1.5) even though you didn't test to them.

You also have to have a certain number of years of welding experience before they even let you take the CWI exam. I hope you are successful in your quest to become a CWI.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 09-03-2007 02:06
WHOA!  I've been on vacation and haven't been checking the forum - until now.  I was surprised to see my name was involved with a controversy on this! 

My sincere apologies, Mogley.  I did NOT mean to infer that you asked a stupid question. I meant that-Yes, 2002 is the most current edition of D1.5. (But others have already confirmed that for you)

(And this was all in English.  Imagine what could happen if we were translating from different languages.) 
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-03-2007 17:50
Hello Ross;

I have been thinking about your reply regarding the comment,  "I think many people consider the API 1104 the easiest Part C option to pass, and if you do, you are certainly qualified to inspect according to any other codebook (like D1.5) even though you didn't test to them."

I don't want to appear to be speaking for the Certification Committee, this is simply my opinion on your comment.

My opinion is that the individual "has demonstrated the ability to use a code by passing the open book portion of the CWI examination", but he/she is not necessarily "qualified" to use or to inspect to any code. That would be up to the specific code or welding standard, the CWI's employer, and the customer to determine.

I have had instances where my client required me to have passed the AWS D1.1 or D1.5 open book examinations to qualify for a job. In another case my credential as a SCWI was rejected for Navy work. They insisted on certification to ASNT SNT-TC-1A for visual inspection of welds because that is what was specified by the welding standard. I believe it was a hose job, but let's not go there.

The Chairman of the Certification Committee, Bob Wisswesser, published a position statement on this matter when the open book examinations were being adopted as "endorsements".

I believe the Education Department made some corrections to the materials being used by them to clarify Certification Committee's position on the matter.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 09-04-2007 13:55
Al,

Thanks for clarifying. I shouldn't have used the word "certainly", and I  wasn't thinking about how the word "qualified" means something more specific in the certification context than what I was saying. My bad.

Would this be a better sentence?: "I think many people consider the API 1104 the easiest Part C option to pass, and if you do, you generally can inspect according to any other codebook (like D1.5) even though you didn't test to them (unless further requirements are stated by the specific code or welding standard, your employer, or the customer)."

And for Mogly's purposes, are we talking about something that would be rare or common in bridge inspection? Any advice for him on what code to test to for Part C?

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-04-2007 20:53
My experience is somewhat limited, but I know several DOTs require the inspector to have passed the D1.1 or D1.5 open book examination if you expect to inspect bridge fabrication. If someone is consdering entering that industrial sector, I would give serious consideration to taking either the D1.1 or D1.5 open book examination.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the individual works in the oil patch, then API 1104 makes sense. If the primary goal is to inspect buildings, then D1.1 is the examination that should be considered. If I expected to inspect rolling stock for the railroads, then I would take that examination. None of the examinations are easy, by that I mean that each of the welding codes or standards have unique requirements that can only be learned by studying the material. Of all the open book examinations I've taken, I found D1.1 to be the easiest. Why, because that was the industry I was most familiar with. I passed API 1104, but some of it was difficult because there isn't  lot of oil related industries in New England and I wasn't familiar with cross-country pipeline work.

As I stated in the previous post, the CWI has demonstrated the ability to use a code by passing the open book examination. Only the employer or customer can say if he/she is qualified to perform the work or inspection required.

That isn't to say the CWI / SCWI credentials haven't gained wide acceptance, but in the end, it is the customer's requirements that have to be satisfied. So, back to the CWI that passed the AP 1104 open book, I can say I know of several state DOTs that would say no.

Best regard - Al
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 09-05-2007 13:29
Al,

I am confused about one thing. As far as I know, the CWI card doesn't indicate what open book code Part C was taken to. And it is not publicly documented anywhere, I don't think. So how does a CWI establish what open book code they tested to?

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-05-2007 17:29
The customer asks what open book was used and in some instances the contract stipulates what open book examinations are acceptable.

I had a call last week from a company looking for a CWI and they asked specifically for the D1.5, but would settle for the D1.1 open book examination. The QC manager is a CWI and he's qualified to ASNT requirements, so, he knows what he wants and what his customer requires. The QC manager said any applicant would have to produce a copy of the test scores from AWS as evidence of what open book was used.

It is a changing world and the customers are more knowledgeable about the CWI program. Why shouldn't they hire someone with the "demonstrated" ability to use the appropriate code for the work being inspected? It makes sense to me.

One reoccurring complaint I've heard from fabricators are the problems they've had with third party inspectors that were not familiar with the D1.1. Their questions are usually along the lines of "How can AWS send out a CWI to inspect structural steel when the inspector has no familiarity with D1.1?"

My reply is that AWS doesn't send out the inspector. Nor does AWS say the inspector is qualified to inspect anything in particular. It's the employer's responsibility to ensure the inspector has received the necessary training and experience to inspect the materials to be checked. The CWI certification is simply ensuring the individual has a basic understanding of the principles of visual inspection, quality control, and how to use a code, but not necessarily the code that is applicable to their work.

Don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying the inspector has to pass the "correct" open book examination in order to do the job. What I am saying is that a new CWI without the appropriate experience in a particular industrial sector is at a disadvantage and most likely will not perform as well as a CWI that has:
1)  appropriate  experience,
2)  appropriate training, and
3)  familiarity with the applicable code or standard.

In a competitive environment, the employer and the customer are taking steps to ensure the individual assigned to inspect various fabrications are qualified to do the work. One of the steps being taken by employers and owners is to "ask" which open book examination was passed. That is the objective evidence they are using to assess whether the "new" CWI has some level of demonstrated competence using a particular code. 

Whether we like it or not, the world is a competitive market place. We either meet the needs of our customer or they will look elsewhere. Who is the customer? Who hires the CWIs? Why do they hire CWIs?

I was having a conversation with a group of CWIs a while back on the subject of endorsements. One of the comments made was that AWS should pay closer attention to their customer's needs, the customer being him, the CWI.

I disagreed with him on who the customer was. I said the customer was the entity that hired the CWI. A company hires the CWI to meet a need, whether it is an internal need or a customer imposed need.  The CWI will not be hired if someone else meets that need better or does it more economically.

End of rant!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ross (***) Date 09-05-2007 17:44
Al,

OK, I see. The CWI has copies of his or her test scores if they ever have to show an employer what open-book code they tested to. That's what I was unclear on.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 09-04-2007 21:46
"a few months"...you don't have that many more months before you'll have to change the dates on your proofs.

Say, are you giving us back the 3 punched holes?

Hg
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 09-05-2007 13:24
Hg,

Yes, the 2007 edition will have punched holes.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By mogley01 (*) Date 09-06-2007 00:13
Man I didn't know I would start all this. But let me say sorry one more time to Chet. I have been welding for five years in the bridge febrication side. And I was planning on taking the seminar but that only goes over  the D1.1 and I am wanting to take the test on the D1.5 so What should I do?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-06-2007 00:26
Take the D1.1 seminar, but study the D1.5.

The basic principles of using a code will be covered in D1.1 and it will parallel much of what is in D1.5. I didn't say it would be the same! Many of the folks that sit on the D1.1 committee also sits on the D1.5 committee, so there are some common threads and philosophy involved.

Al
Parent - By ross (***) Date 09-06-2007 00:41
Mogley,

The CWI's on this forum will give you the best advice, but I want to suggest something to consider. Since only the D1.1 and API codes have code clinics (AWS seminars), if you are more comfortable going into the Part C of the exam with a code clinic to prepare you (along with the workshops to prepare you for Parts A and B), perhaps you could take the full CWI seminar and take the Part C to D1.1. After you pass, you can always go back at any time in the future and get an endorsement to D1.5 by taking just the two-hour Part C D1.5 open book exam at any CWI exam site. You will then get a card that lists D1.5 (as well as D1.1) as an endorsement to your certification. I think the test-taking and codebook searching skills you learn from the D1.1 code clinic would be something that would stay with you on any other codebook test (especially D1.5, which is more similar to D1.1 than the API or ASME codebooks).

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 09-06-2007 16:29 Edited 09-06-2007 16:45
Mogley,
No need to apologize to me - it was I who was not thorough enough in my initial response.  And you didn't start any trouble. so no problem there either.

I agree with Al, and with Ross for the most part.  I would take the D1.1 seminar and if you're more comfortable with D1.5 - test with that.  I would caution you to actually look up the answers during the test to make sure you are not inadvertently answering from the wrong code.  D1.1 and D1.5 are similar but there are some important differences.  If you know your code book well - studying it before attending the seminar and exam - you should have enough time to do that.

My philosophy is to study well before taking the seminar (code, WIT book, and everything else you have).  That way you will be reassured about what you have already learned and you can focus your attention on new materials you might not be up to speed with.
Parent - - By mogley01 (*) Date 09-06-2007 20:44 Edited 09-06-2007 20:47
Thank You Chet, Ross and Al. I was really having a hard time with that. Cause I am paying for all of this out of my own pocket and I would hate to get it done and not get a job. Cause they want somebody that took the D1.1 test and not the D1.5 or the other way around. And I can see now that I will be using this forum a lot. You all are a lot of help. I got one question for you Ross if you don't mind.When will the 08 schedule come out. And I have heard about a group called (realeducational.com) are there dates the same as AWS.
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 09-06-2007 21:24
Mogley,

AWS CWI/CWE seminar and exam dates and locations for first half of 2008:

Location  Seminar Date  Exam Date
Fresno, CA  Jan. 6-11  Jan. 12
Beaumont, TX  Jan. 6-11  Jan. 12
Miami, FL  Jan. 13-18  Jan. 19
Albuquerque, NM  Jan. 13-18  Jan. 19
Pittsburgh, PA  Jan. 27-Feb. 1  Feb. 2
Denver, CO  Jan. 27-Feb. 1  Feb. 2
Seattle, WA  Feb. 3-8  Feb. 9
Milwaukee, WI  Feb. 3-8  Feb. 9
Indianapolis, IN  Feb. 10-15  Feb. 16
Atlanta, GA  Feb. 10-15  Feb. 16
Houston, TX  Feb. 24-29  Mar. 1
San Diego, CA  Feb. 24-29  Mar. 1
Norfolk, VA  Feb. 24-29  Mar. 1
Portland, OR  Mar. 2-7  Mar. 8
Boston, MA  Mar. 2-7  Mar. 8
Phoenix, AZ  Mar. 2-7  Mar. 8
Miami, FL  Mar. 9-14  Mar. 15
Anchorage, AK  Mar. 9-14  Mar. 15
Dallas, TX  Mar. 30-Apr. 4  Apr. 5
Chicago, IL  Mar. 30-Apr. 4  Apr. 5
Springfield, MO  Apr. 6-11  Apr. 12
Baton Rouge, LA  Apr. 6-11  Apr. 12
San Francisco, CA  Apr. 6-11  Apr. 12
Portland, ME  Apr. 13-18  Apr. 19
Nashville, TN  Apr. 20-25  Apr. 26
Jacksonville, FL  Apr. 20-25  Apr. 26
Baltimore, MD  Apr. 27-May 2  May 3
Detroit, MI  Apr. 27-May 2  May 3
Miami, FL  May 4-May 9  May 10
Albuquerque, NM  May 4-May 9  May 10
Spokane, WA  May 4-May 9  May 10
Oklahoma City, OK  May 18-23  May 24
Birmingham, AL  May 18-23  May 24
Hartford, CT  Jun. 1-6  Jun. 7
Pittsburgh, PA  Jun. 1-6  Jun. 7
Fargo, ND  Jun. 1-6  Jun. 7
Sacramento, CA  Jun. 8-13  Jun. 14
Kansas City, MO  Jun. 8-13  Jun. 14
Phoenix, AZ  Jun. 22-27  Jun. 28
Orlando, FL  Jun. 22-27  Jun. 28

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By mogley01 (*) Date 09-06-2007 22:07
Thank You Ross so much for your help
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 01-15-2008 19:22
As an update to this thread, the 2008 edition of D1.5 is out now.

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 01-16-2008 11:42
Ross, is D1.1 2008 out??  Chris
Parent - - By David Lee (*) Date 01-16-2008 13:57
I took my exam under D1.1 and have 15 year's of strutural experiance behind me, currently and for the passed 5 year's I have been working with vessel's and piping under API and ASME.
Without taking an exam in API or ASME code's, would this be considered "qualified" to use these code's?
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 01-22-2008 17:57
That would be up to your employer.  Some specify what code you had to take the exam with, some didn't.  I vaguely recall talk of code-specific stamps somewhere in the future but last I knew that wasn't coming any time soon--if at all, since it's only a vague recollection.

Hg
Parent - By pax23 (**) Date 01-22-2008 19:36
We will not see a code specific CWI stamp anytime soon.

AWS does have something they called endorsements, but those endorsements will appear on a separate card; not on the original CWI card or on a stamp. If you sign up for an AWS code endorsement exam right now your choices on the application are:
(1) AWS D1.1 - Structural Steel: 2002, 2004, or 2006 editions permissible
(2) API-1104 - Pipelines 20th edition
(3) AWS D15.1 - Railroad: 1993 edition
(4) AWS D1.5 - Bridges: 2002 edition
(5) ASME Section IX, B31.1, and B31.3

I hear that a D1.2 exam is in the works as well.
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 01-16-2008 14:11
D1.1:2008 should be published in a few months.

Ross
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 01-22-2008 22:54
just got my new D1.5
Parent - By mogley01 (*) Date 01-26-2008 00:23
Well Sorry for not being on in a long time have been studing my butt off. Well I'm going to take the class and the exam at the end of Feb. I  can go threw the workbook very good only missing a couple. I just wanted to ask how to go about studying the code book, and what should i focus on in the code book and thank you everybody
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / D1.5

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