I used to see this all the time in my trade. Not so much these days. We had a foreman who used to say "only weld it on one side and wrap the corner so it's easy to break off with a hammer". When he told ME that, I put a triple pass of E7018 all around it. He screamed and yelled but I didn't care because I was right and he was wrong.
Remember these words of wisdom an Oldtimer told me: "You can make 10,000 excellent welds and nobody will know your name but make one weld that FAILS and KILLS someone and everyone will know your name. Those 10,000 great welds you made over the decades will be cancelled out by that one weld and you'll have to live with it the rest of your life."
I do. I've got a copy of a pre engineered list for many different sizes of picking eyes complete with the amount of weld called out. It's pretty handy, but it's not solely for temp lugs.
I got it several years ago from a large contractor.
So yes, they do exist.
JTMcC.
I think you are taking the right approach is asking about this. It is always better to KNOW you are safe, rather than to ASSUME you are safe. You should be able to engage an engineer to develop a lifting lug loading chart for your company. The chart should be based on the typical lifts you will be making.
We are fortunate in that our company has a staff of engineers who routinely calculate what is needed to safely lift loads of all kinds. I am not allowed to share any of the information they generate for obvious reasons concerning liability (we have no way of knowing how the information will be used, except within our company). I can say that other PEs and managers in the company do not even try to tackle lift questions on their own, even those who have done a lot of it.
It is not a big risk to weld a lug onto a plate to lift it a couple of feet to a burn table. But how many people understand the change in direction and magnatude of forces when a "big-by-heavy-something-or-other" is rolled over?
It is always amazing how many non-engineers believe they know how much a lug will hold, or a weld will hold, based on their years of experience. Those folks might be right, and I suppose there will be no risk to life and limb as long as you are absolutely sure no person is standing where they could be in the line of fire if a lug rips out. (Whatever the lug is attached to will be a different matter; the load and anything it impacts could be destroyed.)
The real question is: Can anyone afford to be wrong? Accidents are never planned.
Hopefully, your company will revisit thier thinking and have their own chart developed.
chet , that is very good advice . like the others have said if you do good no one remembers , if you do bad no one forgets . life is to short not to do it safe . good luck . willie
when i informed our plant manager that what he "feels" is safe means nothing to me as well what he "thinks" when concerning safety. i want to have the documented proof of what we are talking about and not feelings or thoughts. he is very angry with me. the only people that fear the truth are people that are lying.
when i bring up any safety concern i am dismissed and told to get back to work. because i bring up safety concerns i am considered a problem employee. however burdensome it becomes some days i will not quit bringing up safety concerns.
the only thing it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing.
we had some temp lugs break on a project on a 5'x10'x1" plate the other day and they hid that from me because they dont want an incident report.
still they refuse to produce a chart for lift lug parameters.
on monday we are being served with a possible fine and closure because of our safety practices and still it is me who is the problem for being concerned.
thanks for your responses
i will endeavor to continue fighting for our right to be safe
darren
how is it that stupid people aren't brought out into the light and lynched? if you're not doing what's right, then what ARE you doing?
I got fired more than once for thinking safe or voicing my suggestions for a safer way to rig something. I guess I am supposed to be a mindless boob that follows orders and takes the blame when poop happens.
that does seem to be the attitude on too many sites and in way too many shops
Greetings all,
I had just started on a Co-Generation project in Northern Australia and watched a guy weld a temporary lifting lug on a rolled plate for an overhead tank, no hot box, light rain and didn't even remove the slag off the weld. Before I could say anything they had lifted the 6 metre x 1.2 metre x 12 mm plate over the top of a safety officer (who was more concerned with reprimanding two guys for not wearing safety glasses) and then over the top of an office block containing nearly 100 office workers.
Needless to say there was a major shake up on safety once I had said my piece but the scary thing is that things like this go on everyday all over the world,
Regards,
Shane
i agree with not removing the slag, because if the weld starts to tear the slag will pop off first.the old timers taught me that . what breaks temporary lifting lugs is usally improper placement of lugs,to the way it is rigged.sideways pull on a plate lug is always asking for it to tear off.
Hello darren and everyone else that participates and reads on this forum, my response to your post here is related, but not directly. SAFETY is the relationship of my response here. On 1/18/08 an individual that had been a father, husband, brother, son, friend and any number of other things to any other number of people, lost his life in an accident in one of the fabrication/manufacturing shops in our town. Gary had been working with his partner and was handling a 2800# weldment when it shifted unexpectedly and one of the lifting lugs that was attached to it struck Gary in the side of the head and instantly ended his life, he was 39 years old.
Details on this incident are still very sketchy and the full story may never be known. The fact remains though, Gary will not be here for all of those who had known him. Those who are left have their memories, for some of those, particularly his co-workers, they have a memory that will haunt many of them for the rest of their lives. With safety there are no re-plays, this case is the best example of that. So as anyone considers the various safety aspects of getting this type of work done, that extra amount of minutes that it takes to be safe will likely be worth a life and as we all know life is priceless. Darren, you do have the right idea in your pursuit of information and wanting to know that a lifting lug won't tear away and will properly do the job you intend for it. I don't have the specific information to help you, I know it is out there though and I'm sure that someone will be able to provide some direction for you. As sad as this may sound, the reason that this information might not be readily available probably has to do with liability issues and facts that could put applications of this information under the scrutiny of our various court systems and leave the provider as part of a court proceeding. Lifting is similar to other engineered parts of many fabrications, done incorrectly, disaster! We can't go through our lives trying to necessarily anticipate every scenario for disaster, but we can certainly do our best to anticipate the obvious ones.
Consider the surroundings when making any lift or lifting anything, don't put yourself in the "bite". Don't trust any chain, cable, sling, spreader bar, or other lifting type device. They can fail and you really never know when. DON'T walk under loads or travel loads over others. When considering forklifts, cranes(mobile or otherwise), stay out of the bite as well. We have all likely been subjected to failures of any number of these systems in our lives related to the trades, for the most part we have had near-misses, for those who haven't been able to have a near-miss we have only our memories of their greatness or other traits. Thanks for listening. Best regards, Allan
aevald is right never trust rigging. I have seen a 3/4" x 3' wire choker straight out of the box break on an under max load before, nobody hurt , taught me a life lesson.
as always a very respectable and respectful response Al.
im in major trouble today as i answered the safety inspectors questions honestly.
we'll see what happens. i will not relent on my attempts to make things safer.
i find it a direct respect for the men and women who have died at war and on the job so we have the right to be treated like humans and not a consumable.
darren
Hello darren, I know that we have to make choices concerning our willingness to take safety to heart. I can only consider that your post is referring to possibly jeopardizing your employment as a result of a stand you have taken on the safety end of something or some situation. I wish you the best concerning the outcome of this. I also hope that this issue won't compromise your ability to provide for yourself and your family. Please accept my support for you here, even if it's only moral support. You can hold your head high when it comes to showing integrity for your beliefs concerning safety, as they may well save yourself or someone else from experiencing the pain or sorrow that can come from ignorance regarding safety issues. Best regards, Allan
I remember in a past shop, a lifting lug was, for lack of better a better term, hacked onto a chunk of coal chute(not my handywork, I might add), but a co-worker at the time was flipping it and the lug busted off. BAM! I heard the crash from across the shop, looked up, and thankfully nobody was hurt.
The problem with the half assed lugs is they are put on by people who don't understand the engineering behind the job and don't even have what it takes to make an educated guess, let alone be able to engineer something that could get an approval for overhead lifting.
true...something as simple as WHERE to weld makes a huge difference also! that's why you see some structural clips only welded on the 2 sides that are parallel to the direction of strain even when you could weld on 4 sides...engineers have figured out long ago that welding on the perpendicular edges actually weakens the parent metal and causes fractures.
Forum
