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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / PT indication
- - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 02-13-2008 18:34
Quick Question.....I have V-groove weld prep on 2 sides, welded from one side, back gouged and PT tested. The PT test has produced a straight linear indication (perfectly straight) along the length of the weld in the center  ( faint in some areas almost to the point of being unnoticeable and darker in others ) this indication is about 5 + inches in length. My question, With the Given information What would you all think this is....Grinding marks.....Crack......Lack of penetration.....insufficient back gouging? 
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 02-13-2008 19:08
can you post a picture?
Parent - By James Corbin (**) Date 02-13-2008 19:19
Also: how thick is the steel, weld process?, groove prep specs, root pass thickness?, dwell time etc.
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 02-13-2008 19:15
My 1st guess would be insufficient BG.  I am assuming that the only thing in this situation that could produce that type of indication would be the remnants of the root.

I've never seen 1 single grind mark 5" long, without several others present. 

A Crack would not be perfectly straight.

If BG'd to expose LOP, I would think the indication would be fairly wide.
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 02-13-2008 21:01
Yes I agree with new tito it sounds like he may have to do a little more backgouge to get the line completely gone.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-13-2008 19:19
I agree that a picture would help.

If it's a straight linear indication, it sounds like backgouging isn't quite deep enough.
Grinding marks doesn't sound likely but you could check that by grinding, or sanding with a finer grit and see if it goes away.  Even if it's not grinding marks, the cure will be to keep removing metal until the indication is gone.

Are you able to MT that root?  What you need to be careful of is that dye penetrants can "cook" inside an indication which can seal it off to bleeding when doing subsequent checks.  You could think you are OK when in fact you might not be.  MT doesn't have that problem.
Parent - By NDTIII (***) Date 02-14-2008 04:00
Sounds to me like LOP. Why dont you grind it out and inspect it again?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-14-2008 11:17
Rather than gouging back in right away, can you polish the area a bit more with some finer grit and then reinspect? If the indication is just a very faint line on the surface, the light polishing may take care of it, but if it is something more, it may show it up a lot clearer for you. I agree with also using MT to help verify.

just a thought or two to add.....
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 02-14-2008 11:37
Mikeqc, not to sound negative, but are you qualified to perform a PT test?  By the questions you are asking it sounds like you haven't been properly trained.  The type and locations of indications that you may find with PT inspection are covered in training.  Hopefully this part you are asking about is a test piece.
The good thing is as you can see from all the responces is that there is a lot of good infomation on this site and stick with it and you'll usually end up with the right answer.
I would also agree with the other posts that a straight line indication in the backgouge of a weld is most likely the original fit up and they didn't back gouge far enough.  Go a little deeper, and re-test it should go away eventually.
Chris
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-14-2008 14:18
It's not unusual for folks that are not certified to perform checks on backgouging to assure it has reached sound metal.  We MT backgouging as a matter of routine on groove welds that will be RT'd or UT'd but no other NDE has been specified.  It's cheap insurance.  Normally it is performed by certified persons, however sometimes we allow uncertified but knowledgeable persons do that testing.

As long as uncertified testing is for information only, and is not used to replace testing that has been specified, there should be no problem.  But as you point out, training would be a good idea.  It helps a person to know thay performed testing correctly, to know what indications could mean, and to know how you can resolve questions about indications.  If nothing else, training would be a great confidence booster.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 02-14-2008 20:10
Yes eekpod I have been properly trained. Look at my post ... I never said I did not know what the indication was, or was not. I simply asked for an opinion. The reason for my question.....I suggested that the indication was LOP and needed more grinding; others had the opinion that it was a grinding mark. My question was put out to  see if any others would even consider it to be a grinding mark, and as I suspected no one did. You know one thing I have learned in this business is NEVER ask a question that you don't know the answer to, and always ask what others think.
  Having said that, all is good.......next up RT.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-14-2008 22:08
I believe most of us would agree that it sounds like the welder failed to back gouge deep enough to reach sound metal. If you have any misgivings, try swabbing a small amount of acid on the area of interest. The etch should tell you very quickly whether it is a grinding mark or the edges of the root face.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / PT indication

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