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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / BUILDING MY ALUMINUM DUCK BOAT!
- - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-11-2008 03:09
I FINALY GOT THE CHANCE TO BUILD MY OWN ALUMINUM DUCK BOAT SO I THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THE PIC'S AS I PROGRESS HERE IS THE TRAILER WAITING ON AXLES. HERE IS THE ALUMINUM FOR THE BOATS BOTTOM IS 8X20 AND ALL MATERIALS ARE 5086 AND 6061 I WILL POST NEW PIC'S AS I GET GOING I'M EXCITED TO BUILD IT AN SHARE WITH MY FELLOW WELDERS THANK YOU!
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Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 02-11-2008 04:07
sweet, I've always wanted to make my own aluminum flat boat but figured it would cost more in materials and would be better to just buy it from someone
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-11-2008 04:21
The closest boat to what I am making coat 11.500 I have so far 6500.00 in cost aluminum axles and steel which a lot was left overs from other jobs so I hope that I will finish a boat better built then the manufacture. Built my way to my specs and not including my time I hope to be at 8 or 9 thousand complete the boat will be bigger and heavier built to suit my needs the bottom and sides are 0.160 where most of your other manufactures are 0.125 so I think if you shop your cost as I did you can build it for cheaper then buying one if you have the time this should take me two months to build
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 02-11-2008 04:28
sweet can I see the picture of the boat you are trying to make yours look like? man that thing is gonna be heavy duty
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-13-2008 08:00
Red,

Building an AL boat is a serious endeavor and it takes quite a bit of equipment to form the metal up.  Also designing the structure correctly will be the difference between the boat that holds the weight and gets thru the water well and the one that is unbalanced and pushes its way around the water.  I am not trying to be discouraging but just to give you a few things to think about....

Myself like many on this forum built aluminum boats professionally for many years so if you don't mind I will interject a few pointers to help out with your project.

Weight:  You can get books directly from the Coast Guard with all the formulas and guidelines for figuring out your beam, length, transom height, capacity etc. for figuring your overall weight, water displacement, and flotation needed.   Because of the thickness of the materials your using forming and shaping the structure will be much harder...but worse yet you really need to know your weight and water displacement ratio.

Are you going to press keels into your bottom and sides?  You can do a lot of forming with some simple hydraulics and a bit of I-beam.  Most AL boat manufactures equipment is homemade.   This will help keep weight out by strengthening your major hull parts and preventing you having to compensate with a lot of reinforcement inside.  Those ribs you see in Al boats without floors or sides are very necessary.  You want your floor ribs to continue up the sides almost to your gunnel rail.  Mig welding is fine for all your internal structure inside the hull, decks, ribs, live wells, gun boxes, seats.  TIG your hull seams and do so with 100% pen....do not wire weld ANY of your hull.   When boats are built they are build upon flat jigs that press all the ribs and other structure in tight whilst its welded...I recommend coming up with a plan to simulate this.  A bottle jack and firm table come to mind...your trailer frame could make a good jig table!! You definitely need to come up with either a braked piece or a welded structure for a Knee brace and corner brackts on your transom as well as a cover in which to put some marine treated wood.....you could use some rectangular AL tubing instead but that will complicate it and drive up your costs.  Just take a closer look at the boats at some dealers and you will get the idea at what I am driving at....don't try to redesign it just copy it in the size you need.  For durability Weldcraft, Southfork, and Weldbuilt are all people I know that build LARGE wide boats that hold up....have a look at how they do it.    
Not necessarily thicker material but much more structure (ribs) then others...lots of light stiffeners.  At any rate its not complicated...but its like an aircraft...it must endure a lot of force with a light structure.

Weld your hull up first (upside down on sawhorses works well), sides, transom, and center seam (if you have one).  Flip it over and form your bow in the front and finish her out.  Then it needs to go to your jig....welding out on the floor is going to be tough...you need the capability to pull/push the entire hull straight and hold it that way while you add structure.     Whilst building boats it always needs to be on a flat level surface so you can sight/eyeball from the line of the transom to the bow and make sure its staying in line and square after you add each piece of structure.   Rubber hammers and long clamps will be your best friend.

Just my $.02
Tommy
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-13-2008 13:11
Thank you Tommy
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 02-13-2008 17:48
My dream, (that i WILL someday make come true), is to build my own airboat. I'm jealous of you, wish I had a remote that would pause time.......do they make those?
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-13-2008 17:57
Hey Sourdough, the last I heard, Adam Sandler had a remote like that. It appeared as though it had a few glitches though. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 02-13-2008 17:59
Yeah, for some reason I can see myself abusing something like that!
Parent - - By Gregory Walker (*) Date 02-14-2008 23:45
do you make a good pheasant blind LOL.  My three brittanys do real good!!!!
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-15-2008 08:44
Red,

Your most welcome...I did not mean to come off like a know it all or something....re reading my post it kinda sounds that way to me.

I will say this tho....if during this project you need any help whatsoever I will give you phone numbers and help out best I can.  I have built all kinds of AL boats ...from oil rig transports, boats built specifically for the amazon, to bass boats and of course Duck boats.   I can give you a line on suppliers to get your gunnel's that have a rail system machined in for hooking up temporary blinds, gun mounts etc.

Since your building such a wide rig...I was wondering if you were planning on using pontoons on your transom?
Parent - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-15-2008 13:45
Thank you,

I have been welding for a long time and I'm glad I finally joined the AWS just for all the kinship from all the other welders out there here in michigan which sucks our economy is so bad and every body is out to screw you over for anything... sometimes I feel like my trade like most trades here in Mi are being picked up by every looser who took welding shop class and 10 years later he's a professional welder under biding every job out there and screwing it up! Then i got to fix it... Any way sorry just needed to vent a little.. To answer your Q the boat will be a flat bottom barge style boat.. The front and back will have a 3 and 4 ft deck and one ft sides flat. the hole in center will be 6x13 this area will be a step down and will have in the fall for duck season a blind built over it so all my buddies are hidden from the fast flying ducks...I will be posting pic's of the trailer tonight will be finished with that and getting the bottom of the boat up on it and stating the build saturday!! finely... I will post pic's as i'm going of the structure inside the boat and would love your opinion of my engineering skills tying it together gotta go to work have a great day Bear!!
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 02-15-2008 23:19
Hey TJ, I've never built a boat but should he consider where he puts the welded 6061? I have repaired some 6061 over the years that failed in the HAZ.  I don't think I would use it on the bottom for this reason. What do you think? Ted
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-15-2008 23:50
The bottom and sides and back are all 5086 marine grade aluminum...
The rest of all the supports rails, top, tie in's are all 6061 all will be applied together and welded with 5183 wire .035 dia..
Is this going to be a problem Bear
Parent - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-16-2008 02:39
i finished the trailer today pulled it out took it for a test ride down the road followed good... loaded up by bottom sheet up on it, put plywood down first so I would have a nice flat surface to build off of.. I will be starting the build over the weekend so post some pic's on monday thank Bear!!!
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Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-16-2008 03:55
From what I know 5083 & 5086 are the common hull plating alloys, and 6061 is used for stifiners Etc. on the INSIDE. 5183 checks out OK in the books I have. One of My friends built an aluminum boat that was designed to be built from plywood [no compound curves], it worked out well.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 02-16-2008 04:24
nice trailer man this boats gonna be wide. I can't wait for ya to get this projects going on the hull i want to how it all goes.
Now will you build I'm assuming some kinda jig of somesort maybe out of wood then lay the aluminum over the wood jig and weld her up?
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-16-2008 13:21
The boat will be a barge type with a flat bottom so yesterday i laid plywood over the whole trailer and put the bottom plate on top and checked it it was dead level in my barn so I will build it off the trailer
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 02-16-2008 18:33 Edited 02-16-2008 18:36
thats the same way my 12ft flat boat is made with a flat bottom, it has ribs through the bottom and the side to give it strength and I believe it helps when turning so it doesn't slide out from under you. I've turned a little to fast sometimes and it felt like it wanted to kick out from under me I learn real quick don't drive to crazy with just one person in it. Are you gonna have the sheets of aluminum I don't know if they call that process rolled or whatever with the lines in it to strengthen it?

makeithot this is the airboat I like it sits really low in the water here's the link http://www.diamondbackairboats.com/airboats/riveted.htm
Parent - - By makeithot (***) Date 02-16-2008 18:27
SD, That air boat sonds good have built a noumber of boats rangeing from in size from 26' to 46' but have always wanted to do an air boat the cutting files that are available are wide and varied the hardest thng is chooseing the one that suits your needs and your biggest expence for any boat is what you use for power. I have look at a design that has the motor set low in the hull which brings the centre of gravity down and offers better stabilaty in rough water but the options are endless.
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 02-17-2008 18:27
Most of the new v8 engines are all aluminum. The 6.0 in my pick up is up to 360 horse programmed and cold air kit. I think that would be the way to go for keeping it light. Back home everyone runs big blocks for the horses, but it's a lot of weight. A smaller, lighter boat could go damn near anywhere and never scrape. I don't know anything about props, but I don't think it would be too hard to put together. You never know, there could be good money in building custom boats.

Instead of American Choppers - American River Sleds...............?
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-24-2008 23:38
Just thought I would show my progress... Put down 4.5 pounds of wire today getting the floor braces down and put the back transom on still have 2 more rolls to go to finish the bottom... Then move into the sides and tying in the front
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Parent - - By makeithot (***) Date 02-25-2008 01:31
looking good, but I have to ask why so much black smoke around the weld? what do you have your argon set at ? what are you useing for a gun?
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 02-25-2008 01:51
Using a lincoln sp. mag spool gun and have the argon at 30... I think, some welds have the black, some don't I never could figure  out the setting on my argon should I turn it down some... The gun has a module that also has a flow cellinoid on it..
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 02-25-2008 04:05
I'm no expert but I've welded on a few aluminum boats and stuff in the past useing Tig and when I've had the black smoke it just meant i didn't clean it well enough with a poly fan or maybe you call it a flapper wheel but it could be because you don't have enough argon. The way I always test it is with tig anyway is to turn it on feel it coming out you don't want it to blow really hard but you don't want it to barely come out either
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-25-2008 07:13
There have been some threads/posts about the black when using 5XXX mig wire, someone mentioned that it is tiny particles of magnesium that condensed from fume, and they apear black as they are smaller than the wavelength of light and don't reflect. Comments???
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-25-2008 09:32
Hi Dave, I believe you are really close in your explanation, Lawrence, Al, Stephan, and a few others discussed this topic on a few other threads and I think you probably came real close with your description. You can also see the black amplified if you are using a drag-angle while welding with Aluminum GMAW. Without making any other changes, make a weld using a push-angle, little or no black, make the same weld using a drag-angle, possibly see a lot of black soot on and around the weld deposit. I believe that Al stated that the black was indeed Magnesium that had been volatilized in the arc plasma and that is why you see the black, I believe this is also why you tend to see this more with say, 5356 alloy as opposed to 4043. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-25-2008 12:49
I tink Stephen, Allan and Al pretty clear up the issue...

http://aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=75117;hl=aluminum%20smut#pid75117

Pack al lunch
Parent - - By makeithot (***) Date 03-14-2008 22:13
Hey Allan , I was asking about the black because as an example when using a pulse arc if you have your argon set to high it causes the heavy black smoke is this the same when not using a pulsed arc as I would normally see a white or grey smoke around the weld area when all things are set up and running smooth. (on clean material) ????
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-14-2008 23:07
Hello makeithot, I may get this wrong, but I believe in the case of pulse-arc welding that the voltage and amperage transitions that are occuring during this process do have something to do with the volatized magnesium that is emmitted. Possibly the difference in current and voltage management, may in part, be responsible for the increase in soot that you are referring to. In general, I believe that the use of pulse-type systems allow for higher average voltages and amperages than traditional CV mig and going strictly on this principle, more means more so you could possibly see increases in soot due to this. The excessive flow rates could also possibly account for a venturi effect and increase the amount of contamination resulting in additional soot or a soot-like appearance. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 03-11-2008 22:44
I been welding away. I have the basic boat done now so I thought I would up date the pics thank you
Bear!!
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Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-12-2008 03:53
It looks "Just Duckey" :-) I would have put a lot more ripples in it. :-(
Parent - - By makeithot (***) Date 03-13-2008 15:50
Looks good, At the risk of sounding silly how do you mount the motor with no transom pad etc???
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 03-13-2008 16:04
I am putting long tail twin 23's on the boat I will order them soon and will wait till I have them in hand then I will build and weld the transom on the back to fit the motor and me I may need to pull or push it closer or farther away from the back of the boat
Parent - - By jim parker (**) Date 03-18-2008 11:35
very nice! How much $$$$$$ you got in aluminum?
Parent - By vantage500man (**) Date 03-18-2008 11:56
Aluminum cost around 5300.00 trailer about 1555.00 so far
Parent - By jim parker (**) Date 03-18-2008 11:43
I'm from Gaylord Michigan but ive been working in Arkansas, You could sell your boats like crazy around here! Its all marsh and lots of ducks!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / BUILDING MY ALUMINUM DUCK BOAT!

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