Everyone that has taken time to respond has seen or worked with shops that have good training and those with poor or no training.
The good shops have a system in place, be it informal as the shop foreman putting a new hire with an experienced welder to learn how that shop "does things" to the shops that have a formal training program where there is a full time instructor or an outside "trainer" that is bought in to provide the training on an "as needed basis".
A formal apprenticeship is more and more difficult to find in shops although the outside unions have excellent apprenticeships that provide both informal education by teaming apprentices with journeymen and mandatory formal classroom training during the evening or on weekends.
I provide formal training for many clients that work on military contracts that mandate formal training to ensure the welders understand what is required to perform the welding. We cover welding symbols, metallurgy, welding processes (as applicable), weld discontinuities, visual inspections, and the specific requirements of the WPSs and applicable military standards. There is also a written test as well as the actual welding test before the welder is allowed to weld any product.
Other clients hire me to provide hands-on training to improve welding skills as well as how to read welding symbols and what ever other subjects the client wants to address. Some of these smaller clients send their people to various seminars that I am involved with. Some seminars are "breakfast seminars" that cover some basic aspect of the building industry for the price of a good breakfast (which is included) or through AWS at the local level (last month I conducted a nine hour seminar on metallurgy for $100 per person) or multi-day seminars offered by AWS or ASME (coming to a city near you!). These programs are cost effective and applicable to welders, inspectors, and engineer.
As a youngster I've worked in shops where no one taught anyone anything and they had employee high turn-over and low moral. I've also worked in larger shops where they placed me with a more experienced welder to learn the ropes. I've also completed a three year apprenticeship that included classroom training and on the job experience. I have to tell you that I enjoyed the apprenticeship program and enjoyed that working environment much more than the others and I, like most people, stayed employed by the craft that I served my apprenticeship with for many years.
My experience is that those employers that provide high quality training have less turn-over, better pay, and the best employment opportunities. They also seem to be successful companies that have "staying power", i.e., they are in business for the long term.
Management that doesn't recognize the need to provide some form of training is destined to fail. Even small shops that place new hires with experienced welders can provide the training needed to ensure the new hire will be productive once certain skills are acquired, but no one is an expert with out training and the experience needed to hone those new learned skills. Training takes time and money. Its a fact of life that isn't going to change. It doesn't matter whether an individual is a welder, inspector, manager, or engineer, no one is born with the knowledge and experience required to "perform" in the workplace.
Who is responsible to train new hires? The employer is and will if they intend to be profitable and in business for the long haul. If the employer has no system in place, look for another job with a different company.
I commend those individuals that take the initiative to "take someone under their wing", but that is not a long term solution for the person with the initiative or the new employee. Such a company does not see the "big picture" and they will experience high turn-over rates that do not bode well for a company's long term survival because they are in competition with the "bottom feeders" (low profit margins) of the industry they serve.
Best regards - Al
The reason I asked this question is for the response and I agree with you all.I was recently hired at a strctural steel shop as their cwi.When I arrived the only wps's that they had were in one book on the back shelf.The welders had not a clue so I took it upon myself to work with these guy's and started classes every week on weld symbols,weld discontinuites and wps's step by step.The welders were and are eager to learn all that they can , they just were never shown.
Their super also sits in on the classes, he not only had a clue either,he did not know what a wps even was.It was pretty much a mess when I arrived,to be honest I don't know how they stayed in business.I was told upon arrival that they
let anything go that was within a 1/4" tolerance.Now they are wps's through out the shop,the welders are better trained and those guys are willing to help and work with each other.I do not meen to come across as a brager but we just did a couple of 500 ton jobs and the erectors were very satisfied and thier response was that everything just fell in place I was very proud and felt like that was an accomplishment not only for me but the shop.
Thanks everyone
strat
To me, that last sentence says it all. "the erectors were very satisfied and thier response was that everything just fell in place". I have had erection jobs where it seemed every piece had to have some sort of rework, and I have fabbed jobs myself,outside in the gravel, that you didn't need the plumb bob except on the first columnn, so I know it can be done. It just takes a little pride in your work an attention to drawing and detail.
i've gotta say to all of you that this forum is tops on my list to learn from, not only does a person get real life facts but you get to read how others in this industry see things through their eyes, to me it's like when your granpa used to sit you down and explain how it (whatever it may be) works. truly priceless, and if used properly definitely would make anyone a better person. i'm soakin it up.
thanks,
JJ