NYC Inspector ARRESTED

Date 03-20-2008 23:30

If this story is as reported. That guy is rightfully screwed, and if that iron worker is is correct in his reporting of lacking bolts in the linked story, a few other people are screwed as well.

On the other hand, they report the pay as 52K in NYC. All I can say is, it's more proof of if you pay peanuts, you get a bunch of monkeys. Now one or more of those monkeys has assured that several people will never see their family member again, That is an unacceptable condition anywhere.

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 03-20-2008 23:50

Poor New York state!
A week ago the Governor had to resign; now this inspector is arrested ...........
New York city, a town I'm in love at, doesn't deserve such bad things.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil

By NDTIII

Date 03-21-2008 11:33

The state of NY needs to investigate further to find out if the inspector really just rubber stamped it or was he coerced. If he took money to sign it off he needs to go to jail. If he was negligent, then he needs to go to jail.

If he was forced to sign it off, for whatever reason, then he needs to go into the witness protection progarm and become a state witness.

Remember the great thing about America is that you are innocent until proven guilty.

If you ever worked in the NE you would understand what I am saying.

By dmilesdot (**)

Date 03-21-2008 13:32

Just to keep the record straight, NYC inspectors are NOT NYS inspectors. They have their own thing going on down there.
Dave

By jrw159

Date 03-21-2008 13:40 Edited 03-21-2008 15:36

NDTIII,
I agree with your post except on one small aspect. In my opinion, if he was forced to sign, he should have taken the steps you have implied immediatly. By not doing so, even if he was forced to sign, he is just as guilty as he would be for signing willingly. If he was forced to sign and says nothing about it until after the fact, bieng a state witness would help to expose all involved but in no way should it get him off the hook. BTW I wonder if scrappy has seen this and is now understanding why inspectors with morals, ethics and pride in what they do, that have many peoples well being hinged on the decisions they make, get a little upset when others do not follow procedures. There are lessons to be learned from this by all, myself included, even if they are learned the hard way and unfortunatly at the expense of someones lives. Sad, sad, sad.

By CWI555

Date 03-21-2008 15:33

If he is found guilty of rubber stamping these reports, he needs to go to jail regardless of motivation for doing so. The only difference motivation will have in the matter is if anyone else goes with him.

By eekpod

Date 03-22-2008 00:22

Appears to be a nylon strap that failed and let the sleeve drop about ten stories to the one below, and that caused the crane to brake free of the building. I'll try postijng a link, but I suck at this. Chris

www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

By CWI555

Date 03-22-2008 01:40

It should have taken more than a nylon strap to bring it down.

By eekpod

Date 03-22-2008 12:28

Think about it. If for whatever reason that "collar" got out of square, or jammmed up, and the ironworkers are always like, yeah I'll get it, and he cranks down on the come along, there's enough mechanical advantage to brake a strap. Although this is all speculative, it will be awhile till we know the whole story. Chris

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 03-22-2008 14:32

I think we need to be careful here. The city recieved a 311 call from a citizen with a concern about the crane. The crane company was in the process of adding sections to the crane. The city dispatched this inspector to investigate the concern, most likley the crane company told the inspector that they were adding sections to the crane. The inspector for what ever reason filed a false report ( what about I don't know) but the false report did not bring the crane down, the crane company not following proper protocals and cutting corners brought this crane down. To me this is a CYA for the city and everybody involved and the news media not getting the facts right. I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame it on the "inspector" or that the inspector should go to jail. Who was the "compitent crane engineer" who signed off on the crane.

Jim

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 03-22-2008 15:34

As you say, the media does not always let the facts get in the way of a good story (too bad there is no penalty for that, but that's how it works). I'm sure there is a lot more the the story, to come out later.

By 803056

Date 03-22-2008 16:51

CWI555, do you really want to say, "It should have taken more than a nylon strap to bring it down." It makes you appear to be arrogant and unfamiliar with simple mechanics. I know from your posts in this forum that is far from the truth and it isn't the person I've come to know and respect from reading your insightful posts.

It's far too early to hang anyone associated with this accident. The investigations are far from over.

If a structural member or heavy component slipped from a sling or if the strap failed for some reason, the impact of that part falling several stories on an anchorage can easily be severe enough to cause the anchorage to fail.

I worked with cranes for twenty years. I've also been involved with "jumping" cranes on high rise construction. By nature, the crane is relative precarious during the jumping process and I'm sorry to say, if the crane is going to fail, that's when it will most likely happen.

Please don't believe for one minute that I'm covering any one's butt. Someone is going to have to answer for this accident. It shouldn't have happened, but at this time we don't know all the facts.

From the reports it appears that the inspector didn't perform the inspection as well (if at all) as he should have. The sad truth is that even if the inspector had the proper training and experience, it is still improbable that anything he found would foretell this accident. I agree with the statement, "it's more proof of if you pay peanuts, you get a bunch of monkeys." I believe the training and experience of the inspector will be a point of discussion in any future trial.

The sling shouldn't have parted, but do we know that it broke, was it damaged or cut by striking something during the hoisting operation, did the component slip out of the sling, or was the strap overloaded by improper use? I'm sure the story will be different when all the facts are known. Rarely do news reporters get it right. Just watch Discovery Channel or "How It's Made" to hear the improper usage of technical terminology by people unfamiliar with the industry.

Did the falling component strike the anchorage and cause it to fail? Was the anchorage sound and secure and was it properly designed to handle the expected loads? Was the anchorage redundant so that a failure of a single attachment wouldn't cause the crane to fail? Was the crane properly founded to a secure footing be it on the ground or a temporary attachment to the structure?

I'm sure there will be several cause and effects that contributed to the crane's toppling. Rarely is there a single event happening in isolation that causes such a catastrophic collapse.

Who is to blame:
   - The ironworker that used or abused the sling?
   - The manufacturer of the sling?
   - The foreman that was rushing to beat the clock?
   - The crane operator who is responsible for the safe operation of the crane?
   - The crane manufacturer that didn't foresee all the potential problems associated with "jumping" the crane?
   - The engineer responsible for the design of the crane's attachment?
   - The inspector that is responsible to ensure the crane is installed and operated properly (what is the scope of the inspector's work?)

The beatings will commence at sunrise and continue through to sunset.

A tragic event and my sympathy to the victims, their families, and those involved that will live through endless hours of anguish over what happened and the part they played in the tragedy.

Best regards - Al

By CWI555

Date 03-22-2008 19:46

Al,

With all respect, I would appreciate if you gave me a little more benefit of the doubt. I would also ask you read in context of the other post on the issue I wrote.
It's not a matter of being arrogant or unfamiliar with simple mechanics. Maybe I didn't make this one clear, so let me try again.
When I say it should have taken more than a nylon strap, I mean there is more to this than is being made out in the press. There seems to be a focus on this "strap" in every story I've read. My point is, the strap should not have been an end all statement as it's being made out to be. Yes the weight involved would develop significant energy falling several stories, but in my experience, it's rarely that easy to explain. You yourself point out a few key facts

"Who is to blame:
   - The ironworker that used or abused the sling?
   - The manufacturer of the sling?
   - The foreman that was rushing to beat the clock?
   - The crane operator who is responsible for the safe operation of the crane?
   - The crane manufacturer that didn't foresee all the potential problems associated with "jumping" the crane?
   - The engineer responsible for the design of the crane's attachment?
   - The inspector that is responsible to ensure the crane is installed and operated properly (what is the scope of the inspector's work?)
"
Then there are the multiple reports surfacing in regards to bolting having been missing, of which you have mentioned.

"as the crane properly founded to a secure footing be it on the ground or a temporary attachment to the structure? "

I'd say no "if" the reports are true. I would also say this "if in fact" the reports of missing bolts are fact; who ever it was that saw that condition and said nothing obviously is stating they knew better. So why in the hell didn't they say something at the time? No matter how this turns out, it's hard to argue that missing bolts and nuts from the anchorage points had absolutely no effect on the outcome.

As for this inspector, in two different post I've stated:

"if he is found guilty of rubber stamping these reports"
"If this story is as reported."

I will stand by those conditional statements. """IF""" that guy rubber stamped those reports, He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
It doesn't make a bit of difference "if" his report or lack thereof was directly related to the failure, the general public is going to lose trust in inspectors as a whole again. I've been following the news on this, and others for years, and invariably "if" there is even a hint that an inspector falsified something, the general public mind just shuts down at that point.
Most of the general public are aware of inspectors, either home, bridge, building, electrical, somewhere, someone, and in general, they have trust in them. incidences like this erode that trust. Most of the time an inspectors work goes on without mention nor note of any kind, but when something fails dramatically, one of the top 3 things that comes to the general public's mind is "wasn't that inspected?". Think back to the I-35 bridge, within a day the inspectors were already being scrutinized, comments flying on nearly every related blog whispering about poor or shoddy inspection, never mind the design flaws, and other issues, it was the inspector being hammered first out of the gate. Ask yourself "why is that?"

In closing, "it should have taken more than a nylon strap to bring it down" is in fact true. Be it abuse of the strap, using the wrong one, or using it improperly, being rushed, or any of the factors you've mentioned and others not mentioned, the medias focus on this "strap" and it alone is in my opinion B.S. misleading and piss pour reporting. Maybe I didn't make my intent clear, but it should be now.

Respectfully,
Gerald Newell

By 803056

Date 03-23-2008 03:20

Now that's the type of response I expect from you. Its not that I wasn't giving a friend the benefit of the doubt, it just that I expect more from you than a simple one liner. The one liner didn't do you or the subject justice.

Forgive me for giving you a well place kick in the pants. :) This is the response I expected. I called you on it because I knew you had more in mind and I wanted to hear all of it.

This "strap" reminds me of the infamous "cable" that was the subject of so much investigation when the Hartford Civic Center collapsed. The investigators queried everyone about the cable that stretched from one side of the civic center to the other. The investigators couldn't fathom that the cable was used by the painters to slide their needle beam on so they could paint the steel. They never watched the painters in action and just couldn't understand that it had nothing to do with the structural failure that occurred.

Happy Easter to you and your family.

Best regards -Al ;)