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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Mil SPEC welding wire.
- - By Kix (****) Date 03-28-2008 13:28 Edited 03-28-2008 13:52
Have any of you ever heard of having to certify every pallet of mil spec welding wire before you can use it.  Don't the manufactures have documentation of different batches leaving the plant saying that that wire has been sampled and tested?   I mean when your using a "Mil spec wire" that wire has allready been certified to a particular mil spec right as well as  AWS,CWB, or ASME. Apparently this company is paying 1500.00 a pallet to have that wire certified.  I don't know how they're are doing it, but I will be able to ask more questions later.
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 03-28-2008 20:27 Edited 03-29-2008 00:07
I'm used to see GMAW wire, SMAW electrodes and GTAW rods packed in sealed cardboard boxes (to keep moisture out). Printed on the box are the standards the material was made to: AWS, ABS or other; which means that the manufacturer warrants that the material follows strictly those standards and is responsible for what he states. 
Isn't this your case?
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-28-2008 20:59
AWS has a standard, A5.1, that explains the different levels of testing required for each "schedule" per AWS and ASME.

Unless the purchaser states additional testing is required, the testing described in the manufacturer's QC manual is adequate. That might involve welding a procedure plate and testing for the mechanical properties once a year using materials drawn from stock.

Filler metals for military applications require more stringent testing, but there are several filler metal standards used by different armed services. Each has different requirements. While the filler metal is "certified" to produce the mechanical properties required by the military standard, the materials may not be tested as frequently as required by military standards you are using.

It is best to order filler metals that have to meet military requirements directly from the manufacturer and make sure you specify what level of testing is required and what supporting documentation is required with the shipment.

One of the areas reviewed during a military audit is the purchase order used to purchase filler metals and how incoming receiving inspection handles the filler metals once it arrives at the fabricator's door step. Receiving inspection is supposed to check the information provided by the filler metal manufacturer against the purchase order and the applicable military standard. In some case, a sampling of the filler metal is to be sent out to a third party laboratory and the results compared to the information provided by the supplier if the filler metal isn't order directly from the manufacturer.

Again, each filler metal standard has it's own requirements. You, as the purchaser, have to have a copy of the appropriate standard to know what is required.

It is a wonderful life!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-29-2008 00:51 Edited 03-29-2008 00:53
I agree with Al...just state on your purchase order which specs that the filler needs to meet and have the supplier fill your order and supply the COC paperwork. Many mfg's product will already meet the spec as is, but to get the paperwork that says so, you need to specify it in your PO to them.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-29-2008 14:21
To add to the post, A5.1 provides instruction on how to properly order filler metals, i.e., what information is to be included with the purchase order.

I've worked with many purchasing people to develop P.O.s specifically for ordering welding filler metals. Now if we could just get the suppliers to actually read them......

Al
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-31-2008 14:00
Thank you all for the information you have provided me with.  I started researching what was going on with this company and found out about the Typical certs and Actual certs thing from my supplier.  This company has not been able to tell me what is required of them so I really don't know what to tell them.  If the military is requesting Actual certs from ESAB (the wire they are using) then they do have to pay the extra $1500.00 on top of what the wire cost.  If they only need Typical certs then they are wasting money right now.  We are working to make sure there has not been any miss communication right now. 
     So does the Military have certain wires they will let you use without Actual certs already on a list or something?  Or does each branch of the Military have their own list?  Can I get a coy of A5.1 from the bookstore in here?
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-31-2008 14:09
If you need to see a copy quickly, you may be able to get with your local AWS Section and borrow their library copy until your ordered copy arrives.

Just throwing this out there because it may take a few days to get one ordered and then delivered.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Mil SPEC welding wire.

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