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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Steel of Domestic origin?
- - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 04-04-2008 15:56
What's the opinion on this? If a Purchase order calls for material of domestic origin and the MTR states that the melt was in Finland but manufactured in the US is there any circumstances that would allow that Material be used as domestic origin? One opinion is that the ingot was remelted in the US (no proof of that). Usually when a P.O. calls for domestic steel i have seen that the MTR states Melted and manufactured in the US, has anyone ever come across a situation like this?
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 04-04-2008 16:20
This is a common issue. We perform structural fabrication and have two main requirements with this. the DOT's typically want "DAP" domestic all process, or melted and manufactured in the US. When working with federal money it's a bit less stringent, due to NAFTA we can accept anything melted and manufactured in North America. What we have done on our PO's is put a box that is checked that says "US domestic only (domestic all process)". My interpretation is that if it is not melted and manufactured in the US then it's not domestic.
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 04-08-2008 18:51
Hogan, better check again--Buy America is exempt from NAFTA.  You can't use Mexican or Canadian steel.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/printer_friendly/leg_reg_464.html

Hg
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 04-08-2008 19:40
Hg, you are correct. let me rephrase that. When working with federal money on non DOT work, then Mexican and Canadian is OK
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 04-04-2008 16:55
My understanding is that the M&M's (melted and manufactured) must both be done in the USA for projects funded with Federal highway money.  Our DOT customers have told us that means the ore to make the steel must have been melted in USA (although some of or all the ore can be of foreign origin), and the plate or shape must be rolled in the USA.

HSS tubes are one area we have had to address.  Steel might be foreign but formed & welded into tubes in USA.  No good unless you want to apply the $ value against the non-domestic $ allowance for the project (the GC might want that for himself -so he doesn't have to worry about miscellaneous items or hard to find hardware, etc).

Plate from coil is another area - the steel for the coil must be USA melted to count.  Foreign coil flattened in USA does not comply.

We have had state DOT projects that did not have federal funding and on those we could use steel from any source provided it met specs.

We have also had to be careful about "enforcing" a PO.  The PO might clearly state USA M&M (or whatever designator you use) but the purchaser might have inadvertantly modified that requirement by referencing a quote , or agreement the vendor provided.  If that quote has verbiage indicating the steel might not be USA then it could be "tough bananas" when you receive Polish steel.
(Most vendors will help you to make it right because they value your business, but it can be a headache to straighten out just the same.)
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 04-04-2008 17:50
We recently had an issue where the steel was melted and manufactured in the USA, the MTR noted that the steel was CTL (cut to length) in Canada. Our DOT would not accept it because it was his opinion that cutting to length is a manufacturing process.
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 04-08-2008 18:53
If I'm checking for "Buy America" compliance, I want to see that it was melted and manufactured in the U.S.  Just manufactured won't do it.  If a foreign ingot was subsequently remelted in the U.S., wouldn't the cert be able to show this?

Hg
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 04-09-2008 14:00
What was explained to me:
If the ingot was heated for rolling, that would not be melting, that would be processing - the steel did not actually melt to combine ingredients together.  The cert cannot legitimately state "melted in USA"; it can state "manufactured in USA". (You already know this, Hg - this is more for the sake of others)

If a foreign origin pig iron or basic steel ingot was melted and alloys, or modifiers, were added in a USA furnace, it is melted in USA  That is where the steel becomes the final steel alloy it ends up as. The cert won't say where each came from.
This makes sense when you consider that many of the elements in steel today comes from foreign lands - some of those do not exist in the USA.  (Much of the iron ore came from Canada). 

So you could think of it this way - the flour came from Canada, the sugar came from Haiti, the vanilla came from Spain, the eggs were from Mexico but the ingredients were mixed and cookies were baked in the USA.  So they are USA cookies.

If the cookies were baked in a foreign country, but packaged in USA, they are still foreign baked cookies; and sold in...(no- I'd better not go there!)
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 04-09-2008 14:30
Wal-Mart????????????
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 04-09-2008 16:12
The next town over from me is China - that is China, Maine.  Since I have never seen any large factories there, I have to wonder how they can produce all those items that Wal-Mart sells?
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 16:28
LOL.. Maybe thats where they produce the employee's.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 01:23
Am interested in seeing what this thread turns up.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 01:27
that makes two of us,... at least, and more I'm sure.
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 04-09-2008 16:43
Chet,

Good analogy, but what if the cookies are baked without any guidelines or restrictions by dirty elves in an unsanitary hollowed out tree factory?
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 17:56
I think I got sick off those. I bought them at W..oops, never mind.

jrw
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 04-09-2008 18:01
The only time I've ever gotten sick from eating a cookie was when my fortune cookie message said "Wipe that drool off your chin. That waitress you're oogling is Mr. Woo's number one son"
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 18:17
Whoops!
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-09-2008 18:44
Ouch...
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Steel of Domestic origin?

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