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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / lead size?
- - By mody454 (**) Date 04-17-2008 23:57
hey guys i got a 250d and am about to purshase lead and lead reels. what size lead should i get that would carry max that the 250d can put out  1 or 1/0  at 100ft  plan on doing mostly pipe and structual the guy at air gas said 1 gu would carry  everything i ever needed with that machine but then some old welders told me 1/0   and any leeds on some reels would be appreciated  also i have heard mixed issues on connected all the time reels and ones using quick connects  any input on these matters is greatly appreciated
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-18-2008 00:27
Hello mody454, just recently I looked into some lead reel offerings from Fastenal, they actually have quite a number of different choices and look to be pretty decent. Try connecting to www.fastenal.com, type "welding lead reels" into the search box, I believe you will see a number of possibilities there. I know there have been other threads on the forum here that have also talked about this very subject so try the search function and see what you can come up with there.
     As to your other question with regard to reels that remain connected to the welder while you are welding and possibly also keep a portion of the lead coiled while you are welding, I believe there are definite pros and cons to that. In some instances you might notice some unnessary heating of the leads or possibly some magnetic arc-blow issues. I personally haven't had enough experience with the different possibilities to really say whether this is a big issue or not. If my memory serves me correctly the threads that discussed lead reels did touch on that issue as well as discussing possible sources for manufactured or home-made reels. My $.02. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By mody454 (**) Date 04-18-2008 02:43
thanks allan  ive heard about bad connections in the ones that stay connected all the time and i think if i go that route i would always unwind them all the way i really dont think it would be that big of a hassel to use quick connects have a coupl,e of pig tails and hook them up   i read in tips and tricks there was a post in 2006 in shop talk that a guy posted pics on some he made but couldnt find it   what about size of cable now i saw somewhere to carry 250 amps 100 ft i need 2/0
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-18-2008 03:44 Edited 04-18-2008 05:52
Hello again mody254, the 2/0 is the "suggested" size for a 100' run at 250 amps. That isn't to say that you can't perform welds at longer lengths with smaller cables and such. You do have to consider voltage drop, heating issues, and other sorts of things when you start getting outside of the recommended sizes and lengths. Using cables that are undersized can physically shorten the lives of them due to the increased heat, the coverings can deteriorate at an faster rate than would be normal. A change in voltage relative to amperage can have an effect on a welding puddle and how the bead "stacks" so to speak. Sometimes this can actually be beneficial, other times it can be disasterous. Hopefully this has given you a bit more to consider, the folks who actually do a considerable amount of this sort of work can possibly supply you with better information about all of the effects that you can expect. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 04-18-2008 11:30
I run a Vantage 300. I have reels that are hot all the time. I run #2 lead and I usually do not roll it all out. I have been running this combo for about 2 years without any problems. The reels I have are very good. I ordered them from Mellows Gas and Gear out of Bakersfield CA. I also have a set from KSELLON at Bills Weldiner Repair in OK. They are also VERY good reels and they cost alot less than Fastenal. I have been welding for 29 years and on my truck for 18. I think this setup works GREAT !
Parent - - By mody454 (**) Date 04-18-2008 11:46
hey cactus your running 100ft of number 2?  i didnt know kaye had any reels
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 04-18-2008 20:05
I bought a 300'  roll and started spooling my lead. When it was full, I filled up my ground. They both held the the roll. I have about 175' lead and 125' ground. Kaye's rells hold the same
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-21-2008 15:03
Referencing/Using Miller Welds website and from their owner's manual copper weld cables chart. Welding with 250 amps through 300 feet of 4/0 AWG is based on a 4 volts or less (decrease) drop. AWS D1.1 Essential Variable Changes - Electrical Parameters is voltage with > 7% increase or decrease for SAW, GMAW or FCAW. 7% would be 2.1 volts at 30 volts, 1.4 volts at 20 volts. For SMAW "To a value not recommended by the electrode manufacturer". Inspectors get testy if the meters don't show ranges of Electrical Parameters for qualified procedures.
Parent - - By mody454 (**) Date 04-22-2008 01:37
wow  im lost  lol  but thanks for the effort
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-22-2008 13:32
Don't be lost lol; use a voltmeter and measure open circuit voltage at the weld output studs of the machine. Then, measure the open circuit voltage at the electrode holder/stinger and work clamp/ground. It should be the same voltage or very close; if it is not increase the size of cable. BTW if the weld cables get too large to handle; use a short (20 feet) cable of a much smaller (for the amperage required) size for flexability.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-22-2008 14:53
Hello 357max, I'm assuming that you referenced the 20' section of smaller cable to be the portion for the stinger whip? Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-22-2008 16:08
Yes indeed, ie 4/0 AWG all the way out and then attach the 20' "whip" w/electrode holder. FYI some safety inspectors get "bent" if there is a connector (quick disconnect/connect) at 10' or less from the electrode holder.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-22-2008 16:29
357max,
  See OSHA standard # 1926.351(b)(2) This is where some safety inspectors are getting this. However, if the splice is made with "standard insulated connectors or with splices whose insulating quality is equal to that of the cable" they are permitted.

This is assuming of course that your "whip' meets the requirements of 1926.351(b)(1)

So if your insulators are standard and equal to the insulating qualities of your heaviest cable, there should be no issue at 10' or less. Thats how I interpret it anyways.

Look it up and let me know if you interpret it the same.

John
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-22-2008 18:22
I agree but Check 1910.254 (d)(8). Less than 10' (3m) splices shall not be used. I err on the long side. I like the flexibility of the longer cable.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-22-2008 18:47
357max,
  Good catch. It appears we have a conflict between the two documents. I would also agree that the longer option would be more user friendly.
So in fact, or just your opinion, which document would be the top document?

John
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-22-2008 18:53
I would go with the "weasel words". Usually when they are inserted someone has raised/challenged a question and there usually is some re-thinking. They should rewrite the areas questioned with the proper responses. ie what is allowed or permitted.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-22-2008 19:06
Yeah, With them conflicting like they do I think I would exceed rather than just meet the requirements. As for myself I do not like being shocked, not even a little bit. LOL :-)

John
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / lead size?

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