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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / wire lube info for suitcase
- - By natecf (*) Date 04-24-2008 16:45
one of my newer  welders came to me with this stuff called lube-matic wire cleaner and lubricant, wanted to know why we dont use it. . I've worked in the shop for 18 years and  we've never used it . so my question to all you very helpful folks, does this stuff really make a difference,and is there any problem with it affecting weld integrity . I'm hesitant to add any kind of lube to the wire. We use all miller wire feeders (s-22 p 12 to be exact) and all hobart wire (er70s-6). we don't do a whole lot of code work (d1.1) but it does come up 
    any info would be much appreciated. thanks
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-24-2008 16:53
natecf,
  This product is used mostly on exposed roll wire feed machines that are in a high dust environment. It is applied to a small round "sponge" that can be attached to the wire on the backside of the feeder. The "sponge" is then soaked with the lube. When wire is feed through, it is lubricated and reduces wire hanging up in the liner. The sponge will wear out and become very dirty over time and will need to be changed out.  If used corrctly it will have no adverse effect on weld quality. But, just like anything else, for example anti-spatter spray, if used incorrectly it will cause more problems than it solves.

John
Parent - - By natecf (*) Date 04-24-2008 17:00
thanks for the response , we use the felt wipers on the feeders but they are dry
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-24-2008 19:16
Hello Nathan, one other small detail to add to John's response; the lubers are designed for solid wires and not cored wires, generally the cored wires have a dry lubricant on them which aides with their feeding ability, thus the lubers aren't recommended for use on them. You could possibly argue that this dry lube contributes to liner fouling, yet it is what it is. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-24-2008 19:47
Allan,
  Good catch, I forgot that important piece of information. Thanks for keeping me straight. :-)

John
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 04-24-2008 20:32
Just to add a bit more, and maybe even to clarify for myself.
Allen has it right about the lube on cored wires, but doesn't solid wire have a lube also?  I know most of the stainless solid we run has a lube on it, and even the 70S-6 does too (or so I thought).

On lower volume applications that have exposed wire that might sit on the feeder for a month or two we use the felt pads with lube on them.  It helps keep the "dust" from getting in the liner and ending up in the weld.  They do need to be changed out every so often as others have mentioned.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-24-2008 21:20
Hello Mark, I could be mistaken, but as I have understood this particular scenario, the copper colored coating on carbon steel wires of various grades and strengths is there to inhibit rust, additionally, I can't verify this, but I am thinking that ER70S-2 is an uncoated grade of carbon steel wire. Stainless wires and other solid wires that don't readily rust do not require this additional "coating" and do not have a "lube". This has been my understanding, however I am more than willing to be corrected if I have this wrong. My $.02. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By natecf (*) Date 04-24-2008 22:10
thanks again for all the input, I guess my main consern is that the lube does not introduce any contaminents like hydrogen or some other nasty stuff
Do the majority of you gents. use the stuff?
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-24-2008 23:13
Allan,
  We both could be in for corrective information on this, because I have the same opinion of the "coated" solid wire. It is a rust inhibitor rather than a lube.

John
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-24-2008 23:09
I think you are on the right track with it being a rust inhibitor rather than a lube. It may in the end also lube the wire. As you have mentioned about wire being exposed for extended periods of time, this "rust inhibitor" will collect dust. This is where I have seen the lube utilized the most, as the dust in the air sticks to the "inhibitor" resulting in binding in the liner. Of course this will vary from shop to shop as well as location to location within said shop.

John
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-24-2008 23:37
Hello again Nathan, I believe that any of the "lubes" that are commercially available for use for this purpose have been tested to avoid the types of contamination issues that you are asking about. I would only encourage you to be sure that you read any application information to insure that you are not using this on a wire that they have possibly included an exclusion statement for. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By PhilThomas (**) Date 04-25-2008 03:06
The pad lube in question is basically molybdenum disulfide.  It is not going to contaminate *most* weldments....if you are working on superalloys or titanium you might want to avoid it.

Nearly all welding wires have a lubricant applied to them during the spooling process to aid in feeding.  Obviously the actual lubricants are not advertised, but they are all tested to ensure there is no chemical contamination of the final deposit, as well as ensuring the wire will feed well.  The copper coating is just for rust resistance on S-6 wires.

In my work with end users, one of the most frequent problems is using the pads and keeping them wet with lube, but NOT changing them frequently enough....and soon the dust is turned into mud and then dragged into the liner and clogging it.  The best approach is not to leave the wire on the machine in a dirty environment!
Parent - By natecf (*) Date 04-25-2008 03:22
many thanks to all 
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 04-25-2008 04:12
Hello Phil, thank you for explaining that from a manufacturers point of view. It's always nice when those in the know are willing to enlighten the rest of us. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-25-2008 12:00
Phil...here in our shop the only guys who have feed problems and liners troubles are those who don't take care of the equipment. I walk by their work area and there they are just grinding away on something and all of those little yellow jackets are bouncing off the wire feeder and the spool of wire. Most of our guys do a good job of keeping the wire feeders out of the line of fire and blow off the 60#spool every now and again if the wire doesn't get used up very fast. We also keep those little binder clips with a piece of cloth pinched around the wire just before it enters the machine, seems to really help to get more life out of the liners.
Parent - - By PhilThomas (**) Date 04-25-2008 18:35
Yep - grinding will do it every time.  While I prefer the larger wire feeders due to "more muscle", there is something to be said for a closed suitcase feeder....although many then leave the silly thing open LOL.

The combination of the lube liquid and dust will REALLY wreak havoc in the liner....and can also actually remove the lubricant added by the mfg if it gets gooey enough.

I guess the lube pads are like many things in life....a wonderful tool when used properly.  But to an unskilled person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail ;)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-25-2008 20:26
"But to an unskilled person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

LMFAO I love it! :-) :-)

I hope you do not mind if I use that one sometime.
Parent - By Flash Date 04-26-2008 08:03
Hi All
in addition to preventing surface rust, copper coat on solid wire also aids in electrical contact to help ensure a smoother arc
I know cigweld now have a flux cored wire which is copper coated for this reason, but you pay a premium
I agree that prevention is better than cure, look after the wire and minimise exposure to contaminants rather than lube the wire
just my 2 cents worth
RFlash
www.technoweld.com.au
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / wire lube info for suitcase

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