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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Repair Economics
- - By aevald (*****) Date 05-02-2008 19:33
Hello everyone, I thought about this topic after reading and commenting on various posts from others at many different times while involved with the Forum. I have also had many conversations with students and others over the course of my career regarding this topic.
     How many times have you encountered projects which involved welding problems or repairs that far exceeded the worth of the part or item in question? How many times have you had to make a decision on process choice that was driven due to cost and not necessarily the best method of repair? From a personal standpoint, how many repairs have you done due to a feeling that your time is more readily available than your pocketbook? I believe Kix summed it up very well with one of his comments, "sometimes going slower is really going faster", essentially meaning that there are times when taking the time to do the job correctly or considering your options more carefully will result in the successful completion of a job and not require doing the job over and over or having to end up replacing the item anyway due to destroying it during a failed repair attempt.
     I brought this up as a topic, in part, because management of any project can have a direct impact on the success and profitability of the the job. Something as simple as shielding gas selection can impact ones bottom line immensely. I have seen shop owners stuck on using CO2 as a shielding gas because they felt that it was "cheaper" and "lasted longer", they didn't take into account the amount of additional cleaning that was required or possibly the additional rework that their employees were doing because of certain challenges that use of the gas was causing while welding.
     Other instances might involve shearing a structural angle iron component instead of sawing it. From an application standpoint, if the angle iron is being used to make up frames or other components where the end squareness or lack of deformity might be an issue, sawing makes more sense than shearing might. Some argue that sawing takes too much time and shearing is much faster. Certainly wouldn't argue with the cutting time element, yet if I were the fitter I might argue that when it comes time to put certain components together that a sawed part is much easier to accurately fit than one that has been sheared and thus the small savings in time to cut the part will be more than eaten up when it comes time to make something out of it. In other cases, if the part is to be used for say, angle bracing on structural trusses or similar applications, shearing makes total sense as the end cuts are likely not critical and thus sawing these components wouldn't achieve anything of benefit and shearing them would definitely speed up the process.
     I oftentimes chuckle when I remember a story that my old teaching partner shared with me. He said that a fellow came into the shop and inquired if the weldshop ever did any repair projects for the general public. Before my partner knew what this person had in mind, he said yes, so long as the project or item could be of some benefit to the learning of the student. After making that statement the gentleman went out to his car and came back into the shop with an old galvanized pail that had the bottom rusted out of it and asked if he could have one of his students weld up the holes in the bottom of it. Argueably, you could say that this could indeed have been a learning opportunity for a student, on the other hand it could certainly have been a nightmare to repair. Long story short, my partner turned him down on the repair of this bucket.
     I brought this example into play to emphasize the importance of considering choices that we make when we consider tasks, jobs, and other challenges that come up daily in our welding and fabrication lives. Sometimes a bit of careful consideration, consultation, education, homework, and other forms of investigation can save all of us from experiencing those large headaches and monetary fiascoes and also provide the financial benefits to keep us moving forward.
     Not really asking a question here, moreso making a general statement for everyone to keep in mind as they go about their daily lives. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-02-2008 19:37
Allan,
  Again it is my pleasure to read your words of wisdom shared so freely.

Thank you,
John
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 05-03-2008 02:07
Hey Allan,
As usual, your post is quite enlightening and informative and provides "food for thought" when doing any pre-planning for a job, whether large or small. I was hired for production design mainly in the metal dept, but was also given free hand in all the other depts as well. The crew that was there when I started, were working in the "stone age", so to speak. Quite a challenge. After discussing the objectives sought, with the company owner, I simply asked how severe would my hands be tied when requesting material or tooling. He just said to order what I needed thru the supervisor....no questions asked. He is a man of his word. In 3 months, the production had doubled in the metal dept. because of an effort by both workers & management to have an end result that was beneficial to both. The work was more easily & quickly produced and the profit margin rose. Everyone benefited.

Even though I am partially retired presently, my boss(the co. owner), usually on a weekly basis, has another one of his ideas he needs to fulfill a lucrative contract. Somehow, his thought patterns are always on the most elaborate, time-consuming methods to produce an item. He will confer with me and ask my opinion on the idea, and when I shoot it down because it's not cost-effective, he simply asks me to make it better...and of course, very profitable. Generally, if one just looks at a project, the facets & parameters to get to an end result, there is a way to produce it simply. Nothing better than a good challenge to stir those dormant brain cells.

In addition, personally I feel the work area is the prime factor that makes a job easier, more productive, and shows professionalism. My work area, the metal dept., is orderly, clean, and everything has its' place. I am picky and, at times, adamant to those who disregard my space with clutter or junk. An orderly work area is a productive work area. The bottom line is that a profitable company is your best security for your employment to have longevity. Thanks, Allan, for the reminder of some of the benefits that insure you have a job for yourself & others to maintain your life & family. I'm in my 45th year of welding & production design and I look forward to each day. Love my job. That's another factor one has to have.... if you dread your job each morning you wake, you're in the wrong arena. Best to look elsewhere for another career.

Denny
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-03-2008 07:44
Hello Denny, it's really good to hear from you, I believe it has been a while. Thanks for taking the time to add some great comments. I thoroughly agree with all of the points that you have brought up in your post, I believe the key to success in many instances is taking a step back and looking at the task at hand and then formulating a plan and presenting that plan to those who it will directly affect. All too often a single person or a chosen few will be the only ones with any input to how projects can or will be approached and the individuals charged with making it happen are left with many frustrations as a result.
     Some of the most progressive companies that I have been associated with over my career were the ones who made it a point to include some sort of upgrade to their facilities with each and every project they took on. That may have meant something as simple as a small hand tool to something as extensive as a facilities expansion for more production footage. Most of these companies also took the time to meet with floor supervisors, lead men, and finally the folks on the production floor to discuss the nuts and bolts of accomplishing work. Morale has a tremendous influence on how companies attain continued success, the companies that I mentioned above were held in very high regard by their employees due mainly to their willingness to include everyone as they went about the business of putting out a quality product, on time and giving ownership to those who produced it.
     I'm sure that many of you have seen instances of reluctance to embrace technology. To me this is also an area that should be given due consideration by everyone, especially in our times of global competition. It is really hard to justify the cost of certain pieces of equipment when initially deciding whether to make the leap or not. To me it is even worse if folks don't at least consider some of these items or systems and take the time to consider every avenue; will this tool increase production? will it have a life beyond the job it was purchased for and offer other opportunities in the future? can it replace or supplement other pieces of equipment that are currently in use? will it allow a more skilled member of the team to concentrate on other tasks by allowing less skilled members to operate it? can it be costed into a current job and then essentially become a free asset for future work? does it replace a current piece of equipment and require less expensive consumables or other associated parts than those currently in use? There are countless other questions that could be asked similar to those that I have already listed and should be asked by anyone who is responsible for growth associated with a business. A fairly decent example of technology, efficiency, and choice would have to do with making holes in parts, when fabricating, there are quite a few choices for putting holes in items; you can have them burned out while the pieces are being cut with lasers, plasmas, conventional oxy-fuel cutting systems, water jets, and possibly others that I have forgotten, each of these has their benefits and drawbacks, yet all of them can and should be considered. For some holes it makes sense to use conventional drilling machines; radial arm drills, magnetic base drills, floor-standing drill presses, gang-drills, and any other type of machine that can use a twist drill. In some cases even these machines can be used with alternative type drilling bits such as spade bits and annular cutters to increase cutting speeds and possibly hole finishes or quality. Yet another choice for making holes in parts is through the use of punch presses/ironworkers, these machines can be of the fairly large floor model types capable of punching some fairly large holes in rather thick materials down to hand-held portable punching models that can be brought to the work and readily operated without the use of anything other than an individual who can line it up with a punchmark on the part. There are also a number of different C-jaw type units designed to be hung from a crane hook and brought to the work and powered by a portable hydraulic unit, some of these units also have substantial hole capacities and thickness possibilities. Consideration of uses for these various technologies should be a part of almost any companies foresight and planning process as they work to become better, more efficient, and more profitable.
     As I somewhat eluded to above, even small rather insignificant items really can make a big difference in a companies bottom line when they are considering time, quality, and the bottom line of the money making capabilities that they possess. You will often hear of the term, "status quo", most realize that this isn't the way to stay ahead in todays economy.
     A portion of my initial reason for starting this thread to begin with had to do with taking on work in the repair arena. As readily available as some of the technology is to make repairs to most any item that is in existence today, it isn't always in the best interest of the ones considering making these repairs or the ones comtemplating having them done. My comments can follow a number of trains of thought; when you are given the opportunity to make a repair on an item I believe you have to be very conscious of any liabilities that may be associated with it. Todays sue-happy society has forced most of us to look at many things differently than our parents had to, this comment can describe any number of things depending upon the item or repair and the types of results from a failure of it. Make-up of item to be repaired; in some instances the filler metals or some of the process requirements of facilitating repairs of these materials may almost instantly prevent economical feasibility of their use, filler metal purchase minimums come to mind, you may have to purchase 5 to 10 pounds of a particular type of rod @ say $75.00/lb when you only need a few sticks to accomplish the repair and possibly never use the rod for anything again.
      When a company produces thousands of a particular part they can possibly warrant special conditions and processes that aren't economically justifiable to others, such as the small-time repair welder. In this case you might just end up throwing a lot of money after something that is out of ones realm of capabilities and causing headaches for yourself and the individual you are trying to serve. End result, no one is happy and you or your customer is possibly out a bunch of money. Material identification and special considerations for the repairs of various specialty metals or alloys. It is inherently difficult to identify many materials by simply viewing them. Without knowing the specific make-up of many of the materials used to fabricate many of the things that are used in our society you run the risk of mis-identification which generally results in repair failures or permanent destruction of parts and once again a considerable monetary outlay. To sum up for now, I would say that for many of us, especially myself, I will attempt repairs on my own things much more readily than I ever would for anyone else and for a number of the repairs that I attempt for others, I do so with the stipulation that they know up front the cost or possibly the lack of a guarantee, or much of the time I don't charge for my attempt at a repair because I feel that I cannot give any guarantee. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 05-05-2008 02:37
"Morale has a tremendous influence on how companies attain continued success, the companies that I mentioned above were held in very high regard by their employees due mainly to their willingness to include everyone as they went about the business of putting out a quality product, on time and giving ownership to those who produced it."

No truer words have ever been spoken! I spent over seven years in the commercial food & beverage industry in Las Vegas & worked in some real holes. Both as a worker & as management. Seems a lot of jobs in the welding trades here in Michigan are much the same. Everybody's looking for a hack willing to work 80+ hrs. a week & overlook the quality. What ever happened to work smarter, not harder? I got canned off a job for taking too long. Gee.... Since I was the only competent weldor on that job hacking their crap together (not to mention the two week rework the desk jockeys in the office stuck me with after changing their minds on the design) seems reasonable to think I'm not a magician. Too bad I heard all the negative stuff about them AFTER I started working for them!  I guess I should have gotten a clue when the owner said that oxy acetylene wasn't an efficient method for cutting metal. I sure take the time to tell everyone local how big of a HACK operation those guys run! Maybe I'm jaded....Who knows??!!(Ha ha) Oh well.... Guess I'm just another casualty of the great Michigan economy! Not to say there aren't excellent contractors here that employ some very skilled & happy weldors.

I got a pretty good gig going selling & repairing welding machines for myself now. Has it's good & bad being self employed, but it pays a lot more & I work a LOT less than on the inside of a hood all day! Just wanted to say thanks for the excellent comments. They are encouraging! Wish more people took the time to think stuff thru! Thanks for an excellent post Allan. S.W.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Repair Economics

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