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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anti spatter and painting issues?
- - By Kix (****) Date 05-06-2008 17:57
The problem is grinding debry sticking to the anti-spatter on a bead blasted surface and not coming off in our high pressure steam bath.  The ladders then get painted and the debry comes through the paint and you get the idea.  The three types of anit-spatter we use are Weld-Kleen 350 anti-spatter by Weld Aid which comes in 55 gallon drums, Radnor anti-spatter and nozzle shield, and Walter Spatter block.  They think the issue is with the Radnor stuff sitting and changing to where it won't wash off.  My thinking is the washer is missing a few spots because I don't care what's on that  ladder, high pressure steam bath will take just about anyhting off.  It may not be the anti-spatter at all, but maybe more of the bead blasted surface. Has anyone ever had any issues with anti-spatter and painting?
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-07-2008 00:38 Edited 05-07-2008 08:17
Sand blasting and bead blasting are the absolute most unforgiving surface preps (that and a 32 machined finish that has been degreased) when it comes to sparks of any kind sticking to it. My theory is that the micro roughness of the surface creates an incredible amount of surface area for all those BB's and sparks to adhere (weld themselves) to. Ever seen how well grinder sparks stick to a windshield??? You can't get them off for nothing. (If any one out there has found a way, I'd sure like to know. I've tried acids, caustic, even buffing with rouge and soft cotton pads. Sux when you gotta buy someone else a windshield). Spark adhesion to blasted surfaces is just as bad. I'm betting that if you yourself were to grab the wand, there will be no better results. Try it if you think the washer person is failing in their duties. (As an inspector/supervisor, I've had to demonstrate for painters, grinders, hydro-blasters, welders etc that their poor technique was messing things up, and on some occaisions, have eaten a double slice of humble/crow pie. BTW it tastes like F%&#*ing - SH#T!!!!! especially when you screw it up worse than they did. Sometimes turns into a case of, yeah you're doing it wrong, but I can do it even WRONGER!!!!!!)
Can't remember the name of the product (I want to say "Spatter Free"? This was way back in the early 70's) but it was a gray powder that came in pry off the lid paint type cans, you mixed with water and it made a gray mud silty paste we painted on, and you best not have any in the weld zone, it would deflect the arc. It was the best antispatter next to acetylene soot and not near as messy.
On the other hand, if the paint is not sticking because of the anti-spatter compound residue, try pressure washing with "Simple Green" injected into the stream. Good stuff, we've used it as a pre-wash to get "black light" clean for O2 lines.
Might have to save the bead blasting for post weld/ pre-paint prep....or get some creative prep helpers with scrapers and small wire wheels.
Good luck
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-07-2008 12:40
It's not actual BB's that are sticking to the ladders.  It's grinding dust that sticks to the anti-spatter and if the washer misses that one spot with a direct blast, then that dust stays on the ladder and it gets painted over.  I did a little test with 2 pieces of DA'd cabon steel and hosed them down with the Randor and Weld-Aid.  Then I took grinding dust and sprinkled it all over the 2 pieces.  I let them sit for awhile, then I ran the 2 pieces under some water.  The Weld-Aid rinsed right off like it didn't have anything on it at all, and the Randor still had a base layer of dust still stuck to the piece of metal.  After time the Randor stayed oily and got sticky, but the Weld-Aid virtually evaporates after time.  I think we're going to scrap the Radnor anti-spatter.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 05-07-2008 15:22
Are you Blasting your steel ,welding it ,then steam Cleaning and painting?
I have never had a problem with grinding dust or anti spatter during painting, but my order of operations were as follows ..Blast for weld, weld, solvent wash, then blast for paint.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 05-07-2008 15:30
Are you blasting your steel, welding it, then steam cleaning and painting?
I have never had a problem with grinding dust or anti spatter during painting, but my order of operations were as follows..Blast for weld, weld, solvent wash, then blast for paint.
Try Blasting before you paint who know what kind of contamination has worked its way into the surface profile during welding including anti spatter, magnetized contamination,oil,dirt,....ect.
What Mat are you painting?
How long after the steam wash does painting start?
MIKE
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 05-07-2008 16:07
Sounds like your Prep or Painter needs the old "Vaued Employee" lecture. You know, it goes like this..."you perform a critical task here at XYZ Fab, we depend on the service you provide. You're a valued employee... and if you value your employment here, tighten up your act and start getting those ladders cleaned up....etc....etc..."
But on the other hand, the Weld-Aid cleans right up. That's what I like about this Forum. Not only the questions answered, but all the info obtained that can be filed away for future reference.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-07-2008 16:17
Kix,
  We use the Weld-Kleen 350 as well, and we have no problem with it. However we powder coat our product so our cleaning and prep process may be more involved than what you do.

I would say that it is a prep. issue though, IMHO.

John
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 05-07-2008 19:05
I'm going to have to agree that it was more then likely a prep issue.  You know our washer will be watching his arse from now on so even if they had the old stuff on I feel the ladders would still get clean.;-) 
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 05-08-2008 03:44
  If the Radner product does not come off easily It will probably interfere with coating adhesion as well.

  It is probably easier and cheaper to use the Weld-Aid anti spatter than to find a prep chemical or process that is effective on the Radner product.
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 05-07-2008 16:38
Joining in on this - you say that it is not the spatter that is the problem, instead it is the junk sticking to the anti-spatter that is difficult to remove?

Generally anything is removable once you find the right solvent.  Sometimes detergent and water works best and sometimes solvents like acetone work best.  One thing you might try is "Grafitti Remover".  I have no idea as to who makes it, or what's in it, but it has removed some stubborn stuff for us.  Spray it on, let it sit, wipe it off.  It might work if you put it on, then power wash or steam clean after.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Anti spatter and painting issues?

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