Filter lenses

Date 05-09-2008 14:54

I have never heard of a filter lens get lighter over time with use. As for the newer "autodarkening" lens, again, I haven't heard of any cases where that has occured, but some have batteries that need to be replaced time to time.

Best regards - Al

By jrw159

Date 05-09-2008 15:04

Al,
This one really caught me off guard. I now have the turned in lens as well as a new lens sitting on my desk. By shining a flashlight through both of them at the same intensity, there does not appear to be any differance. After lunch I am going to find an old hood and weld with both, just for sh**s and giggles, but at this point in time, barring any further enlightenment from others, I must call BS on this one.

Thanks for the reply,

John

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-09-2008 15:07

Never heard of that either.

But hey, Bottom line is the welder needs to be comfortable with the amount of light filtered so if giving him a new 4x4 gets rid of the white spots before his eyes than mission accomplished.

Some tool room guys act like mystical gate keepers, Kind of the blue coller version of the tatooed, red hair dyed, nose ringed person who sniffs at your book selection when you check out at Barnes and Noble eh?

When they get really snotty I ask if they have any posters of Rush Limbaugh!

By 803056

Date 05-09-2008 15:15

Hello John;

I wonder if the welder checked the number of the lens before he used it? Was it the correct density to begin with?

I suppose you could use a densiometer used to check the darkness of radiographic film to compare a "good" lens to the questionable lens. It may provide the information you're looking for. I've never tried it, but what do you have to lose?

Best regards - Al

By jrw159

Date 05-09-2008 15:29

Al,
Yes the number was checked, and it is the correct density.

I do not have immediate access to a densiometer, as we do not RT. But i have rigged up a make shift "film viewer of sorts.

John

By jrw159

Date 05-09-2008 15:26

Lawrence,
I totally agree with making the welder comfortable.

I also know exactly what you meen about some tool room personnel. And I say personnel because some of the most hardnosed tool room attendants I have ever had to deal with were female. But on the flip side of that coin, the female attendants needed to be tough so the shop personnel did not bully them. But all in all, the supplies were not coming out of thier pay.

John

By jrw159

Date 05-09-2008 15:39

UPDATE:
OK, here is what has floated to the surface. The lens in question is indeed a #12. There is somewhat of a communication error involve. The welder did not mean to imply that this lens grew lighter over time, but rather, that it is lighter than what he is used to using. Taking this information back to the tool room and asking more questions, it makes perfect sense, due to the fact that unbeknownst to anyone in the weld department, purchasing made the decision to switch brands of lenses, and while they are both #12 shade, one is in fact slightly lighter than the other.

It is not so much lighter as to be a safety concern, but sure is something that one would notice after using the previous brand for a long period of time.

I will monitor the situation and if the use of these new lenses becomes a safety or quality issue, we will switch back.

Thanks for all the input,

John

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 05-09-2008 16:55

I did have that problem like this with an auto dark lens when I was GTAW AC welding an aluminum injection mold at 350amp with 3/16 tungsten. After an hour or so of almost constant arc on time, the cover plate and the actual lens became so hot that the lens lost some of it's shade in a few areas about the size of a quarter. After I let it cool off it did work better, but those areas still to this day are slightly lighter than the rest of the lens. This was a brand name unit, not the $100 throw away ones.

By rlitman (***)

Date 05-09-2008 18:45

Even if you were able to quantify the darkness of the shade, they might measure up the same, and still be very different.
The color transmission can vastly change how visible the puddle is.

Anyway, I would seriously hope that welding lenses don't deteriorate under bright light.

By chris2698 (****)

Date 05-10-2008 02:09

I assume this is a standard non autodark lense I've never heard of this but who knows I mean I bought a shade 11 with a gold mirror and I swear it was way darker then my other 11 almost like it was a 12 or 13 and I went and bought another lense I haven't tried it yet because I just got it today. Maybe it is possible from the factory they messed up making the lense and say if the guy was tig welding and it was a spec darker then a shade of 10 and just it said it was a shade 11 maybe it bothered him just a day or two later and his eyes started hurting who knows. I know when I was learning to tig I used a shade 10 gold mirror and had no problems till half way through the next day my eyes were buring I had burnt eyes and I needed a shade 11. Everyone I know uses a shade 10 for tig but I have blue eyes so my eyes are more sensitive I use a 11 and it's perfect. I have seen some of these permanent lenses are made out of plastic well I'm young but I would say I'm like an old timer I want it to be glass yes it is heavier but I want glass I could see the plastic melting when fluxcore welding or something and mess with the darkness of it

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-10-2008 03:42

Before My auto dark, I always used old green #10 glass filters that We had on hand. Unknowingly I grabbed a #8 that must have come in with My buddies stuff when His machine was in My shop. I hadn't done any welding at all for months, and it seemed WAY brighter than I ever rembered in the past. After a few rods it occured to Me to check the rating.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-10-2008 18:29

Just wondering what you are welding to need a #12 - Tig?

By jrw159

Date 05-10-2008 23:35

SD,
We are using GMAW and FCAW-G on carbon steel. I feel personaly that #12 is a little dark for me. This has been the shade of preferance way before I arrived on the scene.
It has yet to turn into a quality issue, and as you can well imagine, we do not have problems with eye and face burns.

John

By mooseye (**)

Date 05-10-2008 18:51

That does explain the welders complaint.
I have used many different shades/brands/tints over the years and almost all of them give a different appearance to the weld arc.
I would automatically assume, and I know that is a dangerous word, that all give the proper UV/IR/whatever protection regardless of perceived light transmission.
It sounds like this may be a case of the PA or tool room attendant saving a few bucks on a different lens supplier or some such reason. I would place more concern on the comfort/happiness/safety of my welders, since they are the bottom line in quality/quaintly of production. If they like the old lens better, give it to them.

By jrw159

Date 05-10-2008 23:45 Edited 05-12-2008 12:14

Mooseye,
What we had in this instance was more of a miscommunication issue. When I finally got to the bottom of things, it was indeed just a different brand than what had been purchased in the past. Ref. previous post's.

It also turned out that it was not so much of a comfort issue, as it was a noticable differance. The welder that "complained" was not after all complaining about comfort. He just, obviously, noticed the differance in the two lenses, but had no idea that they were a different brand. It just caught him off guard, more than anything, and I commend him for #1 noticing the minor differance as well as speaking up.

When I ran some test's as well as personally welded on scrap material with the two lenses, I could also tell the differance, even though it was minor.

To try to explain, I would say that it was like using a #12 and using a #11 3/4 if they were to makre such a creature. Very minor differance, but noticable non the less.

After talking with the weld crew, there is not any discomfort to speak of, they just noticed the differance. And for this I give them credit, becuase i now know they are not asleep behind that #12. LOL :-)

Thank you very much for your input,

John

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 05-11-2008 00:16

has anyone here had a problem with double vision from laminated glass lens. I noticed I have lately switched to a regular glass lens and it stoped.

By aevald

Date 05-11-2008 01:11 Edited 05-11-2008 01:13

Hello scrappywelds, can you explain laminated glass lens, I'm sorry that I don't understand what type of lens that is. I am familiar with glass lenses and the "plastic" lenses but haven't heard of laminated ones before.
To comment on this topic in general, I believe everyone has the realization that ANSI and proably a few other jurisdictions that I can't remember at the moment, have certain requirements for welding lenses with regards to protection levels and what constitutes a particular shade number. Beyond that, there are any number of variations to how a particular brand of lens "looks or can be seen through". For instance, gold lenses, my personal experiences with the ones that I have tried, go along the lines of seeing images in somewhat of an orange to reddish tint and seeing more in the peripheral area of vision with one of these than the "standard" old glass lens. I have used some of the "Cool Blue" lenses that some have referred to on the forum here, I would agree that looking at the puddle through these does make it easier to see all of the nuances of the puddle and probably provides for better overall welding as a result of "seeing" better. Considering how long welding has been taking place and how many different manufacturers of welding lenses there are and have been, it is likely that individuals will develop preferences for particular ones. As long as we can be assured that our eyes are being properly protected by having the verification that these lenses meet the required safety standards I would believe that personal preference and comfort should be the determining factor for using lens "A" or lens "C" or any other one for that matter. Having options and choices should enable individuals to determine the ones that they find the best for their particular purpose.
Electronic hoods open up a whole different world with regard to visibility while welding and all of the other considerations that welders prefer. I have owned Huntsman's, EQC 3in1's, Miller Elite, Speedglas's of various models, Optrels, and tried a lot of others. There have been quirks associated with all of them and some things were only an issue due to the type of use that I subjected them to. So here again I would have to say that individual preference and use should probably dictate the type of hood that an individual buys and owns. Whenever you're in the market for an electronic, try to find folks who might be willing to allow you to use theirs, this will definitely give you the best chance to develop your own preferences.
With welding lenses in general I have found some things that I'm sure that many of you have experienced. Ghosts for instance, how many of you have fought the double images due to reflections from safety and filter plates and their physical proximity, throw cheater lens into the mix and it can become very annoying rather quickly. I can't even remember the particular makers of the hoods that gave me the greatest problems with ghosts but I have gotten rid of a few as a result, in some cases I have left out the safety plate on the backside of the filter plate in the flip up portion of a hood and have had less issues as a result. Worked a few jobs where sweating was such an issue that the sweat would fall onto the backside of the safety/filter plate stack and then wick in between the plates and give the impression of some pretty wild images as a result of the prismatic effect. To take care of this issue, I would take black electricians tape and seal the edges of the plate stack so that the moisture couldn't get between the plates. Have also had the experience of "melting" the safety plates and plastic filter plates, that's why I try to avoid using the plastic filter plates in general. Now I also pay more attention to how I position myself relative to the welding that I'm doing. All of the comments on this thread have hit home on things that I have certainly run into and then some. Just a bit more to consider. Best regards, Allan

By Stringer (***)

Date 05-12-2008 00:08

I agree with mooseye. I've experimented a great deal with non autodark lenses and find many different effects. Personally, my favorite AVAILABLE lens is the Golden Gate glass. I find the Gold plastic lens commonly sold gives too much orange.

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 05-12-2008 10:17

laminated glass lenes are glass lens with layered structure, like glass, layer of 24 carat gold, then glass agian.