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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Legal enforcement of codes
- - By jmdugan10 (*) Date 05-29-2008 14:16
I am working for a client that has a blatant disregard for codes, standards, and good engineering practices. 

I'm trying to do as much as they will allow me, so I have to educate them about there legal obligations to the safety of the community.  They have a PSM area which is (should be) regulated by OSHA, but outside that area what government agencies enforce ASME B31.3 as a mandatory code of construction.  Their piping meets the criteria but they do not see a need in performing the 5% RT for welds and welders or any NDT for that matter above visuals.  There hand is not being forced so in their minds they don't have to.  Or is it solely up to discretion of the owner user?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-29-2008 14:25
First of all, it depends on your state or municipality as to whether ASME has been accepted as law.  If it has, its not a discretionary matter and you could contact the building official for your area.  It will likely be a State Official if you are within the USA.  Alternatelly, if you know who the customer is you could perhaps contact them.  Be advised, you should handle this matter with the utmost of precaution unless you're not concerned about possible repercussions, including sudden reduction in the work force by one person.

One further note; make absolutely certain you are dealing with a fluid service category that actually requires RT.  Unless memory fails me I believe Category D may be constructed without RT but instead use of inprocess inspections.
Parent - - By jmdugan10 (*) Date 05-29-2008 14:51
Okay... I'm in Illinois, and I have looked on the states web site to find any local regulations regarding this matter, but I didn't have enough knowledge to really know who to ask, with the exception of the state Fire Marshels Office and the National Board concerning pressure vessels (of which they are in compliance...mostly).

The vast majority of what is at this site would fall under normal fluid service in B31.3 which according to 341.4.1 NDT is required.

If the owner user does not allow for RT in the job scope nor will they autorize the use of it, does that release the fabricator from liability?
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-29-2008 16:32
The fabricator is not released from liability although at the end of the day, the owner takes all responsibility.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 05-29-2008 14:27
Sad testimony, but the hand will be forced in the courts. If a project is directed to be welded to a specific code; that specified code is a legal document and will be used in the courts. That is if there is a legal contest. There will be no picking and choosing of what parts to follow or not.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-29-2008 16:37
Thats very true. If its not municipal law, state law, or fed law, its at the very least contract law.
And therefore legally binding.
Parent - - By jmdugan10 (*) Date 05-29-2008 16:56 Edited 05-29-2008 17:03
So what you are saying is that it should be spelled out in the contract as to what codes of construction are to be used per client specifications?  Thus legally binding.  What if they are not?  Is B31.3 mandated by any Federal institution?  If so which?

What I want to show them is the error of the road they are going down, and that ignorance will not save them from litigation. 
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-29-2008 17:20
If there is a contract that references a customers specification (and if not how does the customer tell the vendor how to do what they want them to do), and that specification references a code (as most specifications do), that code is legally binding.
Parent - - By jmdugan10 (*) Date 05-29-2008 17:37
The only spec. I have been given by the client, has not been approved by the client!  I'm not trying to play one up here; it's just how this place is.

Thanks for letting me use you as a sounding board it's actually given me an idea.  What it boils down to is my people are terrified of the client because they are the only gig in 60 miles.  They ARE the town.

Coincidently there is a movie being made about this place starring Matt Damon... "The Informant".  Check it out and you'll start to understand what I'm dealing with.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 05-29-2008 22:02
If you are dealing with a petrochemical or refining business the legal requirement for use of a "code" would fall to the owner user. However, if the place dels with pipelines then this falls under B31.4 and B31.8 which does reference ASME Section IX, API 1104 and B31.3. This makes their use manditory. Plants would fall under local jurisdiction. State departments of environmental quality, State water departments or that sort of thing. Under B31.3, the fabricator is required to do the QC. This should not be a matter of discussion. If the owner specifies the work will need to conform to B31.3, then you gotta do the inspections.
However, if the owner allows you to do the work without any QC or NDT, accepts the work nd give you an waiver in writing, you are off the hook. I bet it will be the last part that they balk at. I cannot believe in todays society  company would be this short sighted. Either that or they must have some really good lawyers. If a fatality occurs, OSHA will be on them like white on rice and somebody will own them.
Really, until something happens, you can complain all you want. They can put 5 RBI engineers on the stand who will say the way they ran the place meet the Industry Acceptable Practice.
BABRT's
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 05-30-2008 14:19
You and I may be working for the same company !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Griff
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Legal enforcement of codes

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