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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld test
- - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-07-2007 18:23
what is the API 1104 branch test and the B31.3 test?
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 05-07-2007 20:45
API 1104
A welder making a single-qualification test for branch connections,
fillet welds, or other similar configurations shall follow
the specific procedure specification.
Changes in the essential variables described in 6.2.2
require requalification of the welder.
The weld shall be acceptable if it meets the requirements of
6.4 and either 6.5 or 6.6.

B31.3 under chapter 5 states that a welder should qualify to ASME IX except as ammended by B31.3.
There are some differences, albiet minor ones. In a nut shell, it will mean you have to bend test rather
than use radiography.
Parent - - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-07-2007 21:26
So is it like a regular pipe test but with different procedures? Can I find all this info in the API 1104 book? Sorry to sound so stupid but I have been welding for 12 years and never herd of these test.
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-07-2007 21:38 Edited 05-07-2007 21:41
1104 test you have to fabricate  a 12" saddle and weld it up, more than likely with a 5P type rod downhill all the way out. 
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 05-08-2007 01:19
Gerald,
With all due respect I think you may be confusing sections of the code.
B31.3  Clause 328.2.1 requires compliance with ASME IX which in turn allows radiography to be substituted for bend tests in certain circumstances.
I can only find 2 examples in B31.3 where radiography cannot be substituted for bend tests.

Clause 328.2.2 (i) states that radiography cannot be substituted for bend tests. However 328.2.2 is titled Procedure Qualification by Others and in order to comply with this particular section you must comply with all Clauses from (a) through to (i). I do not feel that section (specifically (i)) can be applied to Performance Qualification.

Clause K328.2.1 High Pressure Piping states " Mechanical Testing is required for all performance qualification tests. "

I have been working with B31.3 for a lot of years (predominantly NFS) and we have always qualified our welders to ASME IX using radiography.
Please correct me if I have interpreted the code incorrectly,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-08-2007 03:06
ok the saddle part is no problem, but do they want kind of bevel and are they looking for 100% penitration. the p5 down hill is no problem I am just trying to get as much info as I can. This will be the first time I will have taken this test and I want to get it right the first time.
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 05-08-2007 17:03
Well, yeah...they do want a bevel and a nice bead all the way around.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 05-08-2007 03:16
It's the two references you've mentioned that I refer to. Usually, the standard Section IX rules apply except in those incidences.

328.2.2 Procedure Qualification by Others. Each
employer is responsible for qualifying any welding procedure
that personnel of the organization will use. Subject
to the specific approval of the Inspector, welding
procedures qualified by others may be used, provided
that the following conditions are met. (a) through (i)
(i) The employer has at least one currently employed
welder or welding operator who, while in his employ,
has satisfactorily passed a performance qualification test
using the procedure and the P-Number material specified
in the WPS. The performance bend test required
by Section IX, QW-302 shall be used for this purpose.
Qualification by radiography is not acceptable.

In this incidence, it's in relation to a PQR by others, but can apply
depending on conditions.

K328.2.1 you've already mentioned.

Therefore If a B31.3 test is specified, it's one of the two with the K328 being the most likely, otherwise a section IX test is specified and applied.
The question put forth stated a b31.3 test. Not a section IX test, and therefore is either confused or specifically refering to one of these two scenerios.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 05-08-2007 03:20
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 05-08-2007 04:25
Gerald,
My apologies, was not looking to pick a fight.
What I should have said is there is no such thing as a B31.3 welder qualification test.
It is an ASME IX welder qualification test with certain conditions imposed by the B31.3 code,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-08-2007 15:37
I would like to thank all of you for your input it has help out a lot.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 05-08-2007 23:23
Not a problem, didn't take it as picking a fight. I'd personally never heard of a specific B31.3 test other than the aforementioned information.
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-08-2007 23:52
dont they use that 70 plus and the 70plus HYP rods on those tests with i 5p plus stringer????
Parent - - By samh (**) Date 05-09-2007 02:19
Depends on the inspector and gas company. I ran 5p+ stringer and 70+ hot pass, fill and cap. make sure on your throat you bevel it alot so you can get your bead in there. if you dont leave a good bevel it is tough to get your bead, hot pass and fill in and easy to trap slag. 
Parent - - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-09-2007 14:36
Will do, thanks a lot
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-09-2007 23:18
when you cut the whole in the pipe for your saddle do you have to make them mach corner to corner like when you fit a box together at the corners???
Parent - By samh (**) Date 05-09-2007 23:30
get your header cut out and put it on your branch to where it fits with out any movement and no large gaps.then take your header and bevel it. remember to put a good bevel on your throat. then set it on your branch and if you need to do some touch up go ahead and do it.then trace out your header on to your branch tracing around the bevel on your header. cut on the inside of your line and set it up to see what areas need to be ground down for a good fit.if your throat wants to close up then put a wedge in it to keep it open. tack up and weld away.  
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-10-2007 00:37
yes. you want the hole to match the ID of the riser perfectly in order to get the proper tie in on both edges. If you miss the edge they will bust you out.
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-10-2007 00:39
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the header the one you cut the hole in, and the riser the one you cope to fit the pipe contour?
Parent - - By samh (**) Date 05-10-2007 01:01
my bad it is. its been a long day
Parent - - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-10-2007 18:39
do you bevel the header at all or just the riser?
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-10-2007 18:55
don't bevel the header! D'oh!!!

You're getting into pressure vessel territory if you do that.
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-10-2007 23:07
after you get the header and the saddled piece tacked up do you weld it with the saddle straight up or down or horz???
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-10-2007 23:08
where do you find the pipeline companies to let you test??
Parent - - By ZCat (***) Date 05-10-2007 23:32
I only took one of those way back in '99, so I'm a little fuzzy on it. Seems like it may have been a 6G, but I'm not for certain. Finding somebody to let you test, that's the hard part. They don't like to give a n00b a chance, that's for sure. That's one of the reasons I pretty much gave up on rig welding back in 2000.
You have to find out where the work is, and catch them when they're in a bind. I used to call the welding supply stores and ask them for tips, who was doing all the work. They generally know what's going on. Either that, or call the inspection companies.
Parent - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-10-2007 23:35
what makes it hard around where i live there are nothing but shops here and i have to look for people out of town
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 05-11-2007 00:18
The branch is looking straight down. That's why it's called an inverted branch.

You might want to look into working for an experienced pipeliner as a welders helper. You will then get a chance to see all of this in person.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-11-2007 00:40
ok i will look into that in the morning
Parent - - By Cole Welding (**) Date 05-12-2007 15:53
i have talk to my welding supplier and he is going to talk with some pipeliners he knows and get me hooked up
Parent - By rebel74 (*) Date 05-14-2007 13:02
To everyone who has helped me, I thank evry last one of you!!!!!!!!!!!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Weld test

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