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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / CLECOS
- - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 06-22-2007 10:26
Need to hold that part in place and drill holes thru it as well as mating surface?   Need to hold a stack of sheet metal together by hole locations///for cutting sanding or machining whatever"?

Clecos are a simple smart answer.....Till I worked on planes I never knew about these wonderfull little tools.....its basically a spring loaded clamp that fits and clamps thru a particular sized hole.  Basically it aligns and clamps two or more pieces of anything on the same hole location.   When you see one ... if you never have ...you will instantly have some type of use for one.  BTW it takes a simple cheap pair of special pliers to install and use these things.

you can get them at any aircraft tool supply like:

http://www.yardstore.com/
http://www.browntool.com/
Parent - By Bob Garner (***) Date 06-22-2007 14:46
Good tip on the clecos.

I once saw an aircraft cowl being held together by a bunch of clecos sticking out all over it.  Looked a bit like my wife in hair curlers.

Bob
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 06-26-2007 17:13
I have left them in vent ducting seams where I couldn't get a rivet gun in.  Many a submarine has gone to sea with these trusty little doodads holding their air handling systems together!
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 06-26-2007 18:48
Now-- That Scares me.   Three Billion Dollars of US Gross National Product, +/- 110 lives, and some (Probably more than one) inspector let something like that go in a Nuclear Submarine!!!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-26-2007 19:08
Joseph, don't get overly concerned, that Cleco is probably a more reliable fastener than the rivet anyway(chuckle, chuckle). Regards, aevald
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-26-2007 19:29 Edited 06-26-2007 20:06
Besides that Joe, where those "Cleco's" are installed, have no attachment or connection to the pressure hull whatsoever as bozaktwo1 will also attest... Like Aevald mentioned, more than likely if a submariner found the fastener to work better than the original rivet then, if it works why fix it? That is unless there would be a definite concern for the safety of the boat err, ship as you landlovers call them.

Ever been on one of the boats err, submarines Joe? You ought to check out the USS Nuatilus in Groton, CT when you get a chance... You can take one of those ferries from the outermost tip of Long Island to the New London area (I do'nt remember where they dock exactly) with your vehicle and then ride into "Rotten" Groton, CT where the USS Nautilus is now permanently moored as a museum.

It's a nice trip and after you've explored the boat err, submarine, if you like Las Vegas style enternainment, there's the Foxwoods Casino just north of New London on the other side of the Thames river... A real nice place to visit for sure!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

 
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-26-2007 19:56
Whoops!!! I almost forgot to mention that if you arrive there early enough in "Rotten" Groton, CT - check out the Electric Boat Company Store (The Fairwater Store) on Eastern Point Road heading just south from the Main Gate @ General Dynamic's Electric Boat Division Submarine Shipyard where I really learned how to weld many moons ago.

You'll find some really nice gifts available to the public and I believe they're open on certain Saturdays
Anywho, here's their website:
http://www.gdeb.com/store/

Happy Trails there Joe and everyone else for that matter!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 06-26-2007 20:36
I have a question.  Why did they name a US submarine after that traitorous scumbag president Jimmy Carter.  His very first act in office as president was to partdon the draft dodgers.  They didn't even have to plead guilty to a felony.  They can vote, they can hold public office, they can own a gun!  They can be poilce officers and work for the federal government!  They can be teachers and college professors, and some of them actually have dual citizenship, that they didn't even have to renounce their Canadian Citizenship.

Those that renounced their U.S. citizenship are allowed back into my country and they aren't even charged with a crime!  What a insult to all the draftees who had to go to Vietnam and die in some foreign mudpuddle for their country!

I propose that we rename the Jimmy Carter after a much more honorable man;  A California resident.  A man who is as smooth a talker as any polititician, ( though, admittedly, a lot less comprehensible). A man with a real magnetic personality who can attract the female vote.  A man who is somehow responsible for fewer deaths, (actually he never personally killed anyone),   CHARLES MANSON!

In addition, If you read my post here, you will see that I used the word "Submarine".  I have read enough of your posts, Henry, so I didn't use the word "Ship". 

If anyone out there feels insulted at my suggestion, I say that you cannot be anyway nearly as insulted as I was/am by the back stabbing of the Scumbag politician James Earl Carter.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-26-2007 20:45
What do you really think Joe?
.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-27-2007 00:23
Hi Lawrence!

Man does Castro look sick in that picture!!! That shot with Jimmy Carter must've been taken before the ultimate A*@ hole had his surgery because he looks like he's about to keel over...

Maybe as his government propaganda apparatus claims, he was poisoned by Jimmy Carter!!!
This would seem outrageous but then again, so were some of the more infamous methods the CIA attempted to use in assasinating the real scumbag in that picture!!!  Wait a minute here!!!  If that were really the truth then that would make Jimmmy Carter the New Hero of Miami and it's large Cuban American population!!!
See what happens when one let's their imagination run wild???

Personally, I could'nt give a hoot what any of these politicians say or do because they're all licensed to BS as much as they want so, one must consider the source of the BS!!! I have a bumper sticker that I proudly stuck to the rear bumper of my vehicle and it reads: "Re-Elect NOBODY!!!"

Now I've got to ask the question again: How did we get from "Cleco's" to giving praises to a former president of these - meaning our country which is not just my own - United States of America (sarcastically speaking of course)???
Btw, Joe thanks for sharing!!!

I get it now!!! Jimmy Carter who singlehandedly saved the USN's Modern nuclear propulsion program when it was in it's infancy in their Idaho reactor test facility when he was just a scrawny young US Navy officer by risking his own personal safety to stop an uncontrolled or rather out of control chain reaction that was about to make a huge mess of the place if ya catch me drift folks... The same Jimmy Carter that could'nt get the hostages released from Iran... The same Jimmy Carter that has helped over the years to establish "Habitat for Humanity" which is a nonprofit charitable organization that contributes greatly to advancing the quality of life for families that are struggling to provide their children with affordable housing...
The same Jimmy Carter that posed with the "Barbudo de la revoluccion" - meaning: "The bearded one of the Revolution" - Fidel Castro... Man am I getting confused (Just kidding of course ;) ;)  )!!!
One minute he's a hero, the next he's a villain, and then a hero again??? I do'nt think that even Charles Manson could do that!!! Maybe Fidel could... especially in the eyes of his loyal supporters ;)
I personally think that Jimmy's wife is not putting out for him as usual so he has to find some way of getting attention ;) Good observation Btw, HgTX!!!

Seriously though, I would like to suggest that we save our energy for use on the present day "Fearless" leader who's the biggest scumbag I've ever seen or anyone else for that matter although amongst us there might still be some supporters!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 06-26-2007 22:20
If we've moved on to the incendiary political statements part of this thread...speaking of traitors, I live in a state where they celebrate Confederate Heroes Day.  Someone explain to me how people can get all het up about draft dodgers but taking up arms against the United States is fine and dandy.  Cuz there's plenty "patriots" around today with Confederate flags on their bumpers.

Hg
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 07-08-2007 22:52
HG
Please show me where in the US Constitution that is says that states could not drop out of the union?

If it wasn't written there, why did the Northern States start the "War of Northern Aggression". 

WWeeelllll, the victors write the history books, so today we call it the "Civil War".

If it wasn't written in the constitution, why would it be treasonous or unpatriotic for a person to object to the Unionist hegemony, and fly the flag of his choice?
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 06-27-2007 16:45
It's Montauk to Mystic.  Been there, done that.

So, Henry...you tellin' me that the hole I drilled and had metal still coming out after 4 inches is a bad thing?

There are some places on submarines that are tighter than a gnat's a$$ in summer.  When they built these boats, they did it by hull section: that is to say, they built one entire hull section, installed all the piping, machinery, vent ducting, furniture, then they welded the entire section to the last one.  Now, when these boats come into refit there are a lot of times when some components, including sections of duct work, have to be removed for access to other equipment, padeyes, etc.  Well, a few joints literally cannot be riveted back together, nor can a bolted flange be installed due to lack of headspace.  So we have a procedure to use kleco clamps in the rivet holes.  And yes, they are pretty strong...not sure they're stronger than a pop rivet, however.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-27-2007 20:27 Edited 06-27-2007 20:31
Hey BozakTwo1!

Nowadays it's Montauk to Mystic on these newer high speed catamaran ferries but, when I used to ride on the traditional style ferry, I would drive out to Orient Point and take it directly to New London now that you've jarred my memory into working again... If I could'nt catch that one I could always take the scenic route ferry to Block Island then catch another one to New London but, I had to rely on public transportation since that ferry did'nt take cars, and if I was in a pinch, I would drive to MacArthur Airport in Long Island and catch a "puddle jumper" to "Rotten" Groton, Ct on the other side of the Thames.

I know!!! I helped build them (including my own Forum name) after I worked on quite a few of them when I was in the service while you were in Junior High school ;) have you been inside of EB or did you stay in Gales Ferry???

Quote from Bozaktwo1from previous post which I copied and pasted it to this post:
"So, Henry...you tellin' me that the hole I drilled and had metal still coming out after 4 inches is a bad thing?"

Where did I say that Bozaktwo1??? Seems like you're putting these words in for me!!!
Son! You should know better than to put words into an old salt's mouth!!!I was one of the first to "Weldcome" you here in the forum and I like your posts but, when you start writing stuff that I know - I never wrote or implied to, it just "rubs" me the wrong way so, make sure you get your facts straight before you misquote me - Capish?

Now let's go over this one more time so we're both on the same page... What in the heck are you talking about??? In other words, set or rather describe the scene inside and your location within... do'nt forget to mention as to whether or not your in a boomer as opposed to an attack boat and the specific class but, if it's classified do'nt get specific.... Just give me an idea of where it's located and what component you're dealing with in NAVSPEAK - Capish?

Btw, the methods you described how the boats you worked on were constructed... my response to that is "Not exactly!!!" EB and Newport News did not start using modular construction until the "Seawolf" and then the "Virginia' class boats so, answer this question for me Bozaktwo1... how many of these "Modular" constructed boats have been built??? Not many huh??? Most of the boats still in active service were built the way that was close to being "modular" but not exactly!!! Not quite with everything packed in side the hull sections before they "zipped" them together (I meant welded)!!! After that every thing else went in either thru the open end if possible or through the hatches so, construction took longer especially on the first three boats of the class... by the time they got to building the fourth boat of the class, they packed those sections up with just as many components as would be found in the newer modular type class of boats...

In other words their "bread and butter" were made after the first 3 boats as their efficiencies in construction and establishment of procedures were improved so in essence, the forst 3 boats of a class were starting with the first boat, a prototype with the second one being a subtantial improvement and the third one being the one where they finally got their act together as to putting the boats together efficiently. One must also consider that the components are fabricated with certain lead and lag schedules so by the time they got to the third boat, the components that were not yet fabricated in the construction of the first boat, were not only ready for installation but, also more than likely an improvement in the original design itself!!! I learned how to mirror weld in the USN only to make a living welding that way most of the time as a "Yardbird" after my discharge just in time to work on the first Trident!!! Go Figure huh???

Btw, do you know where most of the Idea's come from when it comes to improving the time it takes to construct the newr boats came from??? Not the designers!!! it's a combination of "Squid" and "Yardbird"
ingenuity that these designer with their fancy CAD systems could never envision because of their lack of understanding of the actual conditions present during construction and when these boats need to be serviced... Now the CVN21 (the Newest Aircraft Carrier design) project is using some virtual reality designing concepts that could fill in these gaps once they become proficient in using this very fascinating design tool and IMHO an excellent approach to marine design ;)

Now as far as the comparison of the pop rivet with the Kleco clamp/fastener is concerned... If there is an overwhelming majority of pop rivets that can be replaced when re-attaching the sections of duct work together, then most of the strength of the joint will be from the replacement poprivets which are overdesigned anyway so, in essence even if the Kleco's are'nt as strong as the pop rivets themselves - they really do'nt need to be because of the overcompensation in the design in the first place... All they need to do is to keep unecessary stress from the pop rivets by enabling a snug fit and therefore no loss of air flow or pressure within the ductwork - Capish?
Keep Admiral Hyman Rickover's spirit alive!!!

Fair winds to you son!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 06-27-2007 20:55 Edited 06-27-2007 20:59
Woohoo, all that and a history lesson too!  I am errant in my ways, o master.  But one should ask questions if, after 4 inches and metal still coming out, if it's really the right thing to do to keep on drilling!

EDIT:  I remember when the SSN21 (when it was dubbed "NAS") was in conception and I guess it was NN that sent a design engineer out to talk to us at TRF.  We gave him a bunch of ideas and he went merrily on his way.  I personally have not seen a 21 boat, but I understand they weren't all that the designers had hoped for. 
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-27-2007 21:58 Edited 06-27-2007 22:02
It all depends on what you're drilling through and where, what axis, if your bit is the right type & still in good shape and finally if you're not going to cause any potential damage to any vital components - Capish?

Hey Bozaktwo1!
Just think of it this way, when I was your age, I made some comments to whom I would consider a master also, and got the same response so look at it this way... Now you'll know how to respond when some young "whippersnapper" puts words in your mouth so to speak ;) Do'nt you just love tradition???

That's why the Virginia Class boats were built because basically, the Seawolf class boats were really testbeds, prototypes so to speak which means there's supposed to be considerable improvement found in the design and construction of the Virginia Boats... We'll see!!!

I personally think that we should work more closely with the Germans to design a boat very similar to the one type they've recently added to their fleet because of the Littoral capabilities that we could improve on... Not to mention the "Silent" drive propulsion system that would make our boats really scary to go against!!! I know that the Chinese are probably working on aquiring that technology for use in their navy so, why should'nt we jump all over it beforehand??? Oh I almost forgot, it's because of the mess called Iraq!!!  I hear alot of chatter but then again, that's all it is CHATTER!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-09-2007 18:00
Man. this all takes me back to when I first met you.........
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-09-2007 20:01
Time sure does fly by does'nt it???

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Greg G. (**) Date 07-11-2007 22:19
Clecos are a sheet metal workers best friend. But remember they are only for holding something together not for dimension setting. Been there done that. For precision work you better dimension the work with calipers and tack weld, pull the Clecos out and measure again. Better to be a few thousanths big before welding to allow for shrinkage.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / CLECOS

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