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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Calculating residual stresses?
- - By Kix (****) Date 05-22-2008 12:37
Does anyone know where I can find some really good info on calculating residual stresses after welding?

Thanks, Ray C.
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 05-22-2008 14:29 Edited 05-22-2008 14:37
Ray,

don't want to edge forward and don't know what the others may recommend. And I am quite sure as well as that there are loads of good publications available, but I am using personally my absolute favourite standard reference:

"Welding residual stresses and distortion: Calculation and measurement"

Written by Dieter RADAJ, who is - I hope you don't mind :-) - a German fellow but is worldwide surely leading amongst a very few others in this field.

See also:

http://www.woodheadpublishing.com/en/book.aspx?bookID=750

It contains furthermore a tremendous number (838) of additional references and papers dealing with the entire amount of residual stress and distortion calculation. The book is, in one word: Superb!

However, and I hope the others may agree with me. You have chosen surely one of the most interesting and hereby most intricate topics at all in welding.

There are lots of lots "mathematical tools" necessary to deal with these issues and by that it is more or less a scientific reference.

Honestly whereas, I am not sure if there might be anything else available, which points not towards "scientific" literature...

Best regards and - as far as you may purchase it - enjoy it!
Stephan

EDIT: Couldn't resist and have additionally attached a little photograph of one of the most famous researchers in weld stress calculation :-)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-22-2008 14:39
Stephan,
  We are anxiously awaiting the photograph you mentioned. :-)

John

Never mind, I got in too much of a hurry, and after my reply posted so did your Photograph.

Thanks for sharing. :-)
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 05-22-2008 14:51
My pleasure John! :-)
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-22-2008 18:50
Stephan,
     Thank you very much for pointing me in a direction, and with no hesitation I will persue it, coming from you.  You're not kidding about this topic being scientific(as I wipe my hand across my brow).  What are your thoughts on the hole drilling method for calculating residual stresses?  Glad to see you've been able to hang around more lately.  I'm looking forward to more of your replies in other threads.
 
Regards, Ray C.
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 05-23-2008 14:08
Ray,

first off, thanks a lot for considering my humble hint as being worth to pursue.

Honestly I have anxiously expected some information from our greatly appreciated fellow Prof. Giovanni Crisi in this particular topic, due to I mean to know that he has contributed some very fundamental research in the field of vibratory stress relieve. And due to my humble assumption that before relieving welding stresses one should measure the amount of stresses, I ventured to thinking that he might have busied himself with this particular subject as well.

Nonetheless, perhaps he will contribute somewhat yet to enlighten us.

To be honest with you, I have only read about the hole-drilling method for residual stress measurement within the book, which I have mentioned in my previous post and have never busied myself with this method before.

However, it appears to be a very interesting subject and I have seen that there exists even a particular standard for proper use of this (ASTM E837 - 08). And it appears to me as being a quite intricate method as well, by having a look upon the mathematical coherences between the residual stresses - probably - existing after welding and their final measurement by using the hole-drilling method.

Have you had the chance to observe this method in practice? If so, my congratulations.

Never seen this before in reality but I suppose it might be extremely interesting!

And you know and according to Lawrence: "Not theory, rubber meets the road!" :-)

Best regards to you,
Stephan
Parent - - By ravi theCobra (**) Date 05-23-2008 17:00
If  you  may be looking for an American / Japanese  work  look  up  Koichi  Masubichi of  both MIT  and  AWS.

His work on  welding distortion related to plates in  Shipbuilding  is world class  -
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 05-28-2008 13:24
Thanks ravi!

Will research this...

Best regards,
Stephan
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-28-2008 13:39
Welding stresses and distortion calculation is one of those, what I call welding 'black holes'-though there is potentially an infinite number of them in this huge industry.
And I mean that as a compliment.The field is so fascinating, so complicated, and so intricate, and so demanding of familiarity with other fields, that once you enter you will feel as though you don't really know much more than you did when you started. In fact, you most likely will feel you know even less. If you really pursue the field you may never come back out again trying to cure your ignorance. :)
Parent - By Stephan (***) Date 05-28-2008 13:54
How true, how true!

And each time you could escape one "black hole" (straight on the way to another one) you have lost - or - have got - a few grey hairs more... :-)
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 05-30-2008 17:48
Ray,

I hope you're not upset by anything what I have said or posted (if so, please accept my apologies), since I haven't received any reaction, but I was interested in the method you have mentioned and have busied myself somewhat with it. Thus please let me come back on this and try to transfer what I mean to having understood of this procedure.

First of all I have recalled myself what is understood by using the technical term "Residual Stresses". These - at least as to my best knowledge - are stresses, existing within the component or workpiece without further outer influences, e.g. forces.

Next question to be clarified should be: "How are residual stresses generated?" which can be replied by knowing that any mechanical (e.g. grinding) or thermal (e.g. welding) influence can create these stresses. The disadvantage is with all these stresses, that - in worst case - they can initiate the failure of the component while processing (e.g. cracking), or - at least - can negatively influence the component in a life time reducing way.

Now one can distinguish different grades of residual stresses as follows (I beg your forgiveness for not knowing the exact English terms):

1.  "1.Grade" Residual Stresses. These are acting over longer macroscopic distances and cause macroscopic and thus visual detectable deformation or warpage, respectively. Important is by the way, that height and spatial direction of "1.Grade" residual stresses are equal.

2.  "2.Grade" Residual Stresses. These are acting over smaller material distances (~ 1 grain or partial areas of a grain). Macroscopic deformation is rather less possible but can be caused by a strong perturbation of the inner material's balance.

3.  "3.Grade" Residual Stresses. These are acting only over atomic and thus invisible distances. Macroscopic deformations are not observable.

As one can see by now, the most "dangerous" ones are the 1.Grade residual stresses, since they can reach heights of deforming the workpiece in a macroscopic scale.

The general problem in measuring residual stresses existing within a welded workpiece is the fact, that this is only indirectly feasible. And this again either by non destructive testing methods or by mechanical methods. The first named group includes amongst others e.g. X-Ray diffraction (XRD) used to measure the atomic scaled distances of a stress afflicted material vs. those ones of a stress free material. The second group includes e.g. the hole drilling method, you have spoken about. The physical principle behind this and the other mechanical stress measurement methods is, that by e.g. drilling a hole into the stress afflicted workpiece a stress displacement occurs in the adjacent area of the drilled hole. This displacement again causes minimal deformations which can be measured by using especial strain gages to be adjusted in a particular configuration around the hole. By the measured deformations again one can calculate the original stress condition as it has existed within the workpiece before the hole was drilled.

As I could find out, the major advantage of the "hole drilling method" lies in its mobility and flexibility, due to the testing equipment's low size, please see also the attached Hole_Drilling_Device.jpeg.

But now... as our appreciated fellow Jeff said once, the whole item becomes a "black hole". Since from now on, one has to use the calculating methods relating to even the intricate details cohering to the displacements, originated by the drilled hole, and the measured stresses by using the strain gages. The math to be used for even these calculations is on a rather higher level, just as I have stated another time. But however, since I suppose that you or some of the appreciated other fellows here in the forum are quite interested in the way of calculating the stresses been measured by the strain gages, I will attach the formulae as a separate document, see also Drilling_Hole_Residual_Stress_Calculation (only for information!!!).

However, besides the necessary mathematics I guess it might be interesting to have a short view upon the physical coherences between the residual stresses (within the material) and their relaxing - or even displacement - by the drilled hole may appear, please let me try to describe what it means to relax the inner stresses by drilling a hole into an imagined plate.

Let's imagine that there is the easiest case for residual stresses to be detected. This case means the strains within the material are acting single-axial. This condition is designated by the Greek symbol "sigma" and the suffix "x", which means that the strain is acting in the "x"-axial direction. Now let us imagine that we do have a plate (workpiece) afflicted with even the "Sigma_x" stresses. Please see the attached sketch X_Axial_Stress_Condition.jpeg.

To calculate the relaxed strains one has to prior resolve the KIRSCH'-Equation, see also the Drilling_Hole_Stress_Calculation.jpeg. After having resolved these equations, one can superpose (supposing always to have a linear-elastic material behavior), i.e. one can subtract the single-axial stress condition from the KIRSCH'-Solution.

Schematically this looks like the attached Superposition.jpeg. Here the left sketch shows the analytical solution for a (theoretically infinite) large plate containing a hole (after KIRSCH). The center sketch shows whereas the plate condition  P R I O R  the hole has been drilled and the right sketch shows the condition and the relaxations and strains after having drilled the hole. What does this mean in theory? The relaxed strain value equals even that strain value which is originated within a drilled plate even by subjecting the internal hole boundary with a boundary load (- Sigma_x). The boundary load has thus the same value as direction but the converse orientation.

And this is only the solution for the single-axial stress conditions. Three-axial stresses are quite harder to calculate, as surely imaginable. Thus I would like to avoid to continue here with the calculation of higher stress conditions (3-axial). You know, I have never learned to calculate algebra of matrices, which is however necessary to calculate more dimensional stress conditions.

Well, as you can see. It is as Jeff so wisely said once. Stress calculation and simulation might be a black hole for many of us welders, at least however for me, since I have never learned to use the necessary tools in a sufficient way. And to be honest, I do really not know, if I will ever learn these admittedly interesting but nonetheless quite tricky little things over the rest of my life. But who knows, nobody knows the day of tomorrow...

Best regards,
Stephan   
Attachment: Hole_Drilling_Device.jpg (31k)
Attachment: Superposition.jpg (17k)
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-30-2008 18:52 Edited 06-02-2008 11:57
Stephan,

     No worries brotha!! I wasn't upset or irritated in the slightest way and I apologize for not getting back with you sooner.  When you said that, I had to look back at what you said thinking I must have missed something.  If you're talking about not replying in a timely manner, I would never be upset about that.  I read your private message and I meant to respond to it a bit later and I forgot. (beer 30 on the brain ya know ;-) )  For that I should be the one to apologize for leaving you hanging.  However, the material you have dug up on this subject is golden!  You explained it very well and helped me to understand it even further.  This is another one for the archives! For this I thank you and again, I apologize for making you think I might be upset in any way shape or form.

Best regards, Ray C.
Parent - By Stephan (***) Date 05-31-2008 10:44
Hi Ray,

thank you very much Sir!!

Firstly for your kind words in terms of the interesting topic you have - as usual - initiated and secondly for allaying my fears! :-)

In terms of the Private Messaging System it seems that by the AWS has changed the forum software, a change in the Messaging System has occurred as well.

As a private message or even another notification once has been opened, it appears now that the notification (as a reminder) is removed automatically.

However, once again thanks a lot for your kind feedback and my very best regards to you!
Stephan
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