Pipe Fence question

Date 06-25-2008 03:50

A lot of that old pipe will be magnetized. Its funny to watch that arc dance.
If they came to me to do it on the side Id charge a flat hourly rate and they supply pipe and rods.
I just built my wife a round pen. I charged her a big glass of iced tea each hour. Now she wants me to put up lights. Im negotiating the price.
Consider a tractor with an auger. Saved me a lot of time and work.

By Wrench Tech (**)

Date 06-25-2008 04:01

I'd charge my wife a lot more than a few glasses of iced tea. You can bet she'd pay the price....the negotiating process could be interesting, too. LOL Tom

By Idylwyld (*)

Date 06-26-2008 02:05

I'd charge my wife a lot more than a few glasses of iced tea. You can bet she'd pay the price....the negotiating process could be interesting, too

I am "negotiating" for a brand spanking new 305D and nightly foot rubs. I have been borrowing a welder.

By phaux

Date 06-25-2008 04:10

I figured that stuff was magnetized. Been making H braces for people with that stuff and when I grind the edges all the dust sticks to the ends, also as you said, the arc will dance around sometimes, drives me mad. What causes it to be magnetized?

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-25-2008 04:15

I do some custom steel/iron fencing & gate work & charge around $100 & up per linear foot. This can sometimes include materials on smaller diameter tubing & or short run jobs. This is a little different than what you are doing, but you will have a considerable amount of effort, cost & time into doing a fence like this. Are there vertical between the horizontals? All round? If so, you're doing fish mouths on every single joint & total weld around every joint to prevent rust out. BIG work on round stock. I stay as far away from it as I can. Cutting fish mouths out with a torch sucks, is tedious & very time consuming to do a good job. An ironworker is the only way to go with that.

Digging the holes will be a killer too, unless you rent a little beaver auger, or something similar. A skid steer with an auger would be the best deal for 10+ holes 10" or better in diameter. You won't be fighting a hand auger & end up feeling like you jumped in a cage with a super pissed off rhino at the end of the day either. :-) I usually add $40+ a foot for a complete install in moderate circumstances. If it's a suck crap install, I stick it to 'em bigtime. If they know how much work it's going to be to put it in, they shouldn't have any problem paying you for it. A couple gates I have built have been in the $200 per linear foot range, but were very intricate & labor intensive to build.

I would get the skinny on the materials, whether they are provided or not. The steel alone will bury you if you have to buy it & are only getting, say $50 a foot. If they want 4 square posts, maybe 3/16", they're going to be around 9' long to get below the frost line @ around a 5' tall fence. It's going to get expensive REAL fast, especially if it's all new stock. Sounds to me like they are probably looking for it cheap. Tell them to quote around if they think $150+ a foot, materials included is too high,(price your steel first though!) especially if you have to get a skid steer in there to dig the holes. That'll probably soak you for a few hundred hundred bucks after damage waiver, tax & delivery. I don't know the local economy either. But, I sure as heck wouldn't be out there killing myself for over a week fabbing it, THEN one more putting it up by myself only to make a grand after expenses. NO way! Good luck! S.W.

By phaux

Date 06-25-2008 05:01 Edited 06-25-2008 05:05

$100 per linear foot, so $10,000 for 100ft of fence?! He's not supplying any materials.I have a place I can get 2 3/8" iron pipe for $1.05 a foot which is what he wants used for posts, top and bottom rail. He wants 4x4 wire fence tacked up on the top and bottom rail. My only concern is busting through that rock. Fish mouths do suck though, your right on that. It's just outside of Dallas. As for frost line, it's Texas so I'm not too worried about that, figured I'd bury'm 3ft deep each.

By Root Pass (***)

Date 06-25-2008 05:06 Edited 06-25-2008 05:12

I use a drill press and hole saw for fish mouths on hand rails. Works real well. I secure the work with an old Ridgid pipe clamp that I clamp to the drill press table. Use the welding cost estimator someone posted earlier and see how that works out for you. That thing is cool.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=104119;hl=welding%20cost

On the rock, those augers work real well but you might want to plan for the extream in you estimate, like renting a jack hammer. We have lime rock and it busts up pretty easy for the most part but I don't know about where you are.

By Metarinka (****)

Date 06-26-2008 13:39

I'm glad someone is ennoying my cost estimator!

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-26-2008 13:49

That's a real cool tool. :-) Doing this fence stuff is never a straight up deal. Too many varibles. Especially when the ground's real hard & there's Caliche. I just charge by the linear foot & extra for tricky installs. I could have used this on a bucket job a while back though. (It didn't end up happening though!)

Cool stuff! S.W.

By 52lincoln (***)

Date 06-25-2008 05:41 Edited 06-25-2008 05:51

some people get 10 dollars a hole,then whatever th material costs double it plus 10% for each run.P.S if i could i would use new pipe.its cheaper and a hell of allot better to work with.
what i'm saying is if it cost 2.00 a ft.charge 2.00 ft for each run of pipe,plus 10 -15 dollars for ever hole you set a pole in.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-25-2008 12:09

I wouldn't touch it for cheap. You can certainly work well within that number. That was just a ballpark I use for wrought iron fence, here in Michigan. Since materials are much less than I would have thought, (much, much less) cut a piece off that figure and go for it. Sure, that's big money, but after you cut & cope all your pipe, rent an auger & kill yourself digging all day (been there, done that) or, rent an expensive skid steer or other expensive method to dig, drive out to & from the site a dozen times, pour cement, hiring labor (if you choose to do so) & buying materials (most likely up front) it's going to be a hell of a lot of work putting it in. Even if you can use a hole saw like R.P. mentioned doing the cope, it's still going to be very time consuming & tiring moving 10' lengths of pipe around a drill press all day. From my experience, the driving around picking up materials & going to & from the job site are where you really get squeezed. This cost in time & gas expense adds up fast & people don't realize all the logistics involved. I've gotten my rear handed to me on a few jobs. I've been there & I just let it pass by if I'm not going to come out of it @ roughly $55 per hour.

People can say that's too much, but they're not going to be the one putting it in in 110+ degree weather! Just something to think about. Good luck! S.W.

By WELDINROPER (*)

Date 06-25-2008 06:08

Try getting ahold of Southwest Equine at 580-276-4864 or www.southwestequine.com, they're outa Marietta, OK. Lonnie or Justin can hook you up with some 2 3/8 brand new pipe that is used for the main line sprinkler pipe in buildings. I know it sounds funny but it's like schedule 40 I think, anyway it's a heck of a lot lighter and it's brand new clean easy weldin pipe. I know he's sells the heck outa that pipe in southern Oklahoma and northern Texas there. They sell it by the pound, and I don't know what it's goin for now days and he carries all kinds of galvanized pipe also. Anyway just another outlet if ya need it.

By texwelder (***)

Date 06-25-2008 12:34

Look man if you have to bid the job, try and use new pipe, not having to cut off the up-sets and not having to weld on old rusted magnetized pipe will save you time which means more money for you. Also are you putting concrete around every post? The best way to do it is figure up what materials costs add 10%, then guess on your labor and what you want to get per hour within reason, Sometimes on small jobs like that I have bid the job materials x 2 + 10%, material and all, but it doesn't sound like there is enough material cost to that and you make any money. About 5 years ago I built 4500 feet of fence for a lady, it was posts, top rail, with net wire stretched over it and I bid it at about $5.50 per foot, and she supplied all the material.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 06-26-2008 02:57

2" water pipe is about 2 3/8 OD. If You are going to cope that with a hole saw the saw should turn about 150 RPM for good saw life. I cope pipe using a hole saw in a Bridgeport milling machine because I don't have a pipe notcher for the ironworker, and don't need one often enough to justify building one.

By texwelder (***)

Date 06-26-2008 03:03

To slow to do it that way, dig your holes, cut your posts 8', set them in the hole level on a string line, pour dry concrete around them and add water to each hole, pull a string at the height you want, cut your saddles with a torch, lay your top rail in, tack it all together, then come back and weld out. the concrete will set like that too, add plenty of water in the hole it hydrates.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 06-26-2008 04:16

texwelder: I was building a set of handrailings, 1 1/4" & 1" sch 40 pipe, I needed a bunch of equal length parts & copes that fit well. I could cope both ends acuratly in under a minute, top & bottom lined up & fit, no grinding. You are probably better with a torch than I am, but this was pretty quick.

By texwelder (***)

Date 06-26-2008 04:22

that is fast, but how long will it take to cope 2 3/8 pipe?

By phaux

Date 06-26-2008 04:17

Sounds about right. A thing about that dry pouring the concrete though. I build fences with a neighbor and that's how he use to do it even though I had been told it was no good. He'd pour the concrete in dry then fill with water and mix it real good with a stick. One day we had to pull a post we had just set, and low behold half the concrete on the bottom was still all powder, even though we mixed it real good. I had also once talked to a guy who tore up fences on the side. He said all the fences that the concrete was poured that way; when they took up the posts years later there'd still be powdered concrete.

By texwelder (***)

Date 06-26-2008 04:27

This is true, but most people only put concrete around every other posts, put it in every hole, and if the ground is real dry you will have that problem, because the ground will soak up the water faster than the concrete will. And put plenty of water, after it soaks up what you put in the first time come back and add more before the top hardens over. So a little concrete around every post is better than some concrete around every other post

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-26-2008 13:50

NOW, THAT'S the WAY to cope pipe!!! If you have a big enough end mill, you got the best, most accurate fit up you can ever imagine. Mill is the only way to go. Most kats I know don't have that luxury! S.W.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 06-27-2008 03:52

Steve, I used a 5/8 -18 bolt with a jam nut to hold a hole saw, no pilot drill needed. When cutting a partial cut like that a hole saw cuts really fast, just plunge down with the quill like drilling a hole. The 5/8 bolt is a Jacobs radial airplane engine crank shaft bolt, they are ground true to .625" so it holds well in the collet. To do the 2nd end acuratley, I had a pipe that fits the 1st fishmouth clamped up vertically as a stop. This gave me identical parts on the centerline spacing of the copes.

If You use an endmill, the serated roughing cutters work best, feed in to the side of the cutter rather than plunging.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-27-2008 11:12

Heck yes! I have done the end mill thing lots of times for smaller tubing. I don't have any bigger mills (like over 1 3/4" though). Got any more of those aircraft bolts? I have some hole saws, but they are shanked & not very accurate Like I said before, I try to stay well away from round stuff though. S.W.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 06-28-2008 04:57

Steve, I can look around, some of them have a reduced diameter ground into the center, must have been something experimental, or the ones without were not finished. My Grandpop was a machinist at Jacobs from some time in the early '30s untill they closed in the mid '50s. some odds & ends came home with Him.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 11:49

Cool! Thanks! S.W.

By KSellon (****)

Date 06-25-2008 16:51

We had to call a concrete hole drilling company to drill the holes for our fence, it ran $50 a hole. Here in Ok its $10 a foot, so $10 x 100', plus the footage of the posts.

By phaux

Date 06-25-2008 22:02

So is that $10/ft for the top rail and then $10/ft for the bottom rail, or just $10/ft all together? I'll probably tell him $2000 for the 100' of fence and gate so long as the rock is easy enough to bust through. I figure all the metal will cost roughly $400, concrete $100, gas $100, helper $150.

By JHarlos (**)

Date 06-25-2008 23:49

I think you are cutting your self short. Two years ago I built a fence and gates for a guy that has a dirt company. With him suppling his skid steer, concrete, labor, and pipe he still paid me 2000. All I had to do was weld and cope the pipe. They did all the holes and pouring, plus he left one hand around to help me.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-25-2008 23:54

No doubt! If I was doing it, at minimum, $3500. Most likely more. I don't like to price myself out of a job, but when you get to the end of the day & realize you could work at Walmart for the same money.....Go figure! If you got to rent a skid steer, concrete mixer, hire day labor plus all the good 'ol unexpected that always seems to happen, you'll be screwed going too low. You can always negotiate a lower price. Kinda tough to go back up! S.W.

By 52lincoln (***)

Date 06-28-2008 04:02

you saying you get 3500 dollars for 100ft of pipe fence

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 12:08

If I had to drive around 50 miles or more getting everything & going to the job, gas for the welder & truck, buy concrete, rent a mixer (or mix it all in a wheelbarrow, no thanks), rent a bobcat W/auger (or rent something else), buy the pipe, cut, cope & weld it in pos in 110 degrees, hell yes! If there's Caliche under that dirt, you'll be hiring someone to cut thru it, or be jackhammering it all day. That ground is probably going to be hard, no doubt, but I always bid everything out at worst case scenario. I've been there too many times with the logistics of a job costing you more that the job was even worth. I have never put a pipe style fence up & would not want to rape someone on it, but I get paid for what I know as well as what I do. Pricing & hourly rate is different there too, I understand.

I charge around $100 a linear foot for wrought ornamental iron here. That will usually include materials, painting & installation, but that's a little different than this. I can understand the simplicity on a pipe fence, but unless I round it all out to getting $50-55 per hour plus my drive time, I'll just let it go on by. Too many hacks around here working for nothing, I can't afford to be one of them. Not with what I have invested in all my equipment & overhead. I don't have a 9-5 to fall back on. That changes the dynamic of the situation drastically. I've lost my can on a few jobs I under bid & then ran into horrendous problems. My post about that scrap job was one perfect example. It wasn't even worth all the running & headaches for what little I got paid. Ended up paying them, darn near, by the time I was done. I , again understand this a different deal & I have never done it. I just wouldn't want to get big shaft on it if I underbid it. At least from my perspective. :-) S.W.

By millerman (**)

Date 06-25-2008 23:54

i bid 45.00 $ an hour for the 1 s i do they supply the pipe and they set the posts i cut them then they set them i supply rods rig gas all i do is fit and weld up if i need to use a helper its 15.00 more and 6x5 4 rail gate pipe hung
made out of 2 3/8 pie i charge 300.oo apiece <hung> when u charge a flat hourly price its easier to figure when they go from 2 /38 rails to a 4" post <more time consuming to fit up> working on 3500 ft of pipe now but this works for
me , if i do the holes then its 25.00 a hole and they furnish cement and pipe

thanks
Mac

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-26-2008 00:35

Now that sounds reasonable. You get out of all the real hard labor of digging holes & setting posts. NO FUN! I also forgot to mention Caliche. It was all over in Nevada & if it's under where the fence is going, (Dallas, TX.) you're in for a long, hard job to get it out. Bigtime labor & tiresome work to cut thru it. He thought I was crazy charging $100 a linear foot. I won't touch custom wrought iron fencing for any less here. That of course, also is painted & very ornate. I charge extra for difficult, or far away installs. If I have to dig holes & fill the pipes with cement, the price goes up as well. But, I tell you flat out, you run into Caliche & you'll be wishing you hadn't ever bid the job! S.W.

By KSellon (****)

Date 06-26-2008 14:59

I can guarantee evrything you listed will double. its unforseen costs. You'll send $100 in gas on the welder alone.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-27-2008 12:11

Well put Kaye. It always ends up happening like that. I did a moderate scrap/demo job with a guy up in Grand Rapids a couple years ago. He bought a big lot of machinery to scrap out of a closing factory.To make a long, horrendous story short, he bit of WAAAY more than he chew. We spent almost two weeks hauling scrap out of there & I bet after logistics, gas, trailer rental, breakdowns & paying me, he barely broke even. This was in the dead of winter too & we had 12" or better on the ground & more coming every day. I had to drive 70 mi. one way to the site every day. He was easily 35 mi away. He failed to realize the golden rule of any job..... YOUR TIME IS MONEY!!!!!! EVERYTHING YOU MOVE, TOUCH, EVERYWHERE YOU DRIVE, EVERY THOUGHT YOU MAKE, COSTS YOU MONEY!!!!!! Take it from many who, like you & I are self employed. If you don't add your time running around in to the equation, you're going to come up short, every time.

Not to sound self righteous or anything, :-) but if someone has to get on a site like this to ask how much they should charge for a fence job like this... That most likely means they do not have much experience doing it & haven't been down the road of "Paying Tom Sawyer to whitewash HIS fence!" If it was me...I would stay away from it!!!! S.W.

By KSellon (****)

Date 06-27-2008 14:41

whats the olf saying fast, cheap or good--- pick only 2.... Have pride in all that you do, and realize if you have the ability and take pride in it , its worth what you charge.

When someone is hiring you to build something like a fence its because they do not have the knowledge, time or equipment to do it. For them to tool up to 1/2 a** do the same job would cost them 10 times what you are going to charge. You don't want to low bid, because thats how you will be advertised by your customers " call this guy he's cheap". Then your stuck in a rut.. JMO

By 52lincoln (***)

Date 06-28-2008 03:59

before you go to far he's just a young guy,trying to get started.cut him some slack

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 06-28-2008 05:05

I am not a young guy anymore and I still hate to estimate & quote a job. If I was going to do a job like this I would offer to work time & materials with the understanding that if after a few days the customer doesn't like what it is costing Him, the job stops, He pays for the time & materials and there are no hard feelings. I am on My way, & He is on His own.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 12:19 Edited 06-28-2008 12:21

I understand that too. I had to learn the hard way when I got started & I don't mean to ever discourage anyone or anything like that. I just don't want to see it discourage someone new to the field & figure everything is like this & that "every weldor" that isn't doing commercial pipe works for cheap. I've had my a** handed to me more than once when I was starting out, and it really made me feel that the only way I was going to get a welding job is if I did it cheap. After a few bad experiences with really cheap, difficult people, I didn't even want to weld anymore. All I'm saying is be realistic, but don't underpay yourself. If you're too cheap, people will think you're a hack. I'm not a hack & I don't work for cheap. They don't dig that, they can call the next guy. 'Nuff said! :-)

I understand where you're coming from. :-) No harm meant! :-) Did you sell your shorty yet? Just wondered. S.W.

By jrw159

Date 06-28-2008 15:16

S.W.
I do not look at your opinion of this project as discourageing or negative, but plain and simple REALITY. Sometimes though, one needs to have ones a** handed to them and work for free to fully understand. I a corious to see how this works out. :-)

IMHO I see way too many possible issue's with this project. RED FLAGS!!

You know what they say about good, fast, and cheap. Pick two. LOL

jrw159

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 16:12

Yep. I couldn't agree more. I sure didn't want to come across like that. I just know from experience how those kind of jobs usually go. After getting canned by the Hack Master Supreme (Steve Smith, Eagle Enterprise) I made up my mind about working for cheap & pouring myself out to an employer & or a job. Unless the money is there, I have NO interest in even looking at it. Unfortunately, here in Michigan, there are a LOT of hacks working for $35 an hour & a lot of the people who run small businesses needing maintenance welding done on their stuff know this & expect everyone to work for that. I'LL GO GET A JOB BAGGING GROCERIES BEFORE I'LL WORK FOR THAT HERE DOING RIG WORK.

As the adage goes: "You get paid for what you know, not necessarily what you do." I'm not a genius, but I'm a good weldor & fabricator. I'm not going to give my work away. The repeat clients I have know this & don't have to call me to rework the stuff I do. In fact, some have called me to fix work done by some of the other, even higher priced hack shops in town. But as anything goes, you get what you pay for....Usually! S.W.

By 52lincoln (***)

Date 06-28-2008 18:18

no I've only had one call on it.it must be priced to high LOL!!!yea i hear ya I've underbid several jobs lost money in the end.that could be a double edged sword though.you better be worth what your charging also.wouldn't y'all agree.

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 18:28

You'll sell it. It's worth what you want for it & it's really the same with machinery. Don't be giving it away. BUT.... Give them something GOOD if your gonna charge good money for it! Absolutely agree with you. If you are charging good money, you had better back it up with good work. If you don't, you'll make a bad name for yourself, end of story. S.W.

By millerman (**)

Date 06-28-2008 13:31

yea scb been there done that but my pricining work for me i have tried per foot < then they change from 4 rail to 5 or from 8 foot centers to 6 foot , plain jane fence posts to , 6" or 4" uprights> it just seems that at a hr rate its more flex able i make a decent scratch but dont wish to leave a bad taste in any one so my stuff is like this if you dont like the job then u pay for matl. and we part ways and i will damn sure make it known that nobody should work for this person because of this , but also let me say that i run a 85 restored rig truck spent a lot of time with the old blue book and have made over the years almost ever possoble template for pipe 4" to 10" , 2 to 4" ect. to well it does not take that much time to fit up this job i am on will take about 40 to 60 hours to do so at that its about 1800.00 to 2700.00 for this job and about 300 for matl not including fuel i use proflame cutting gas its costs the same as acy. but i get 5 bottles of o2 to 1 of it .

Thanks all
Mac

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 16:20

I agree. Hourly is the best way to go. Some people don't like doing it that way, but it's the best protection for the guy doing the work. I try to see $55/hr out of anything portable. Especially if it involves screwing around with difficult installs & intensive manual labor. I figure on the gates & panels I have built, that if I can get $100/ft. I'll do alright & come out ahead either way. You have a good system for this kind of work & if I was doing the same, I would readily adopt it. That's what's so cool about this site, you get weldors from all over the country, giving you insight into how they do things. Thanks for the input. Steve.

By jrw159

Date 06-26-2008 01:28

Get what you are worth or stay home. This is a high risk job at best, from the sound of it.

If it is not benificial, let it roll on by.

jrw159

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 06-28-2008 16:51 Edited 06-28-2008 16:58

I agree that sounds like a job to bid hourly......if they have a definite amount of fencing etc. You are guaranteed someone will give them a hard bid if they talk enough people. You might get called to fix that job as well. I like the 10 dollar a hole charge if there is enough of them to cover the cost of renting some equipment.......SQ. tube fencing use to be 22 bux a linear foot here in the mid nineties + cost of material. Pipe (heavy) fencing is a lot more work....I don't know bout that $100 a foot price.....but if it looks hard it will be hard. Have a way to fishmouth all the pipe beforehand.....give them a quote with material with you puttin in the holes and with them puttin in the holes (concrete???????). Don't cheat yourself $65 an hour + materials not counting if its *****y work...if it is adjust your rate accordingly like $75 plus. If they want you to paint it, (drive the holes, fit and weld it) they are at a 85+ per foot rate considering the material.

Piece of good advice: Never be scared to ask for what it is worth, if they ain't willing to do that, you did not want the job anyway. #2 People in general have no respect for someone who is cheap to hire.

Good luck
Tommy

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 17:54

"Piece of good advice: Never be scared to ask for what it is worth, if they ain't willing to do that, you did not want the job anyway. #2 People in general have no respect for someone who is cheap to hire."

THAT is a very good piece of advice, Tommy. You may not be able to make a radio out of a coconut, :-) but you know what you're talking about when it comes to doing work cheap! :-)

As far as doing ornamental gate work @ $100/ft. that's a very different ballgame, from what I have learned in this post alone about pipe fence. I have never built a fence like the one being discussed. Obviously a lot of work, but still much less involved than an ornamental iron job. I can easily get 20+ hours into one big panel alone if it's a very detailed job with lots of torch cutting, heating & hammer time on the anvil. That's slow, meticulous, involved work, no matter how you cut it. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about getting $100+/ft for. I should have clarified that earlier. Some guys probably think I'm crazy!

I would think your formula is very good on this kind of work & the hourly labor, a very good rate to come out of it with some extra scratch on top. I always like to work T&M, but a lot of folks around here aren't all too crazy about it. Either way, as you said....NEVER cut yourself short!! Good stuff! S.W.

""She came home last night rock N' rollin' drunk. She talked no sense, but she sounded so sweet though.." (Mean Streak, Deep Purple, Perfect Strangers LP)

By Sourdough (****)

Date 06-28-2008 18:06

Steve, so you're a blacksmith too?

Right on! I spent much of last week on the forge and anvil. A gal came in the shop, looking for the antique shop next door. She looked around and asked if I could do a towel rack for her if she drew it up for me.

Unable to say that I couldn't do it, we agreed to a price of 1200 bucks.

I lost my a## on it, cause I was beating round stock for 2 days before I had a finished product. In these cases it sure is nice to do t&m, instead of bid.

Feels good at the end of the project to put on the patina and wax tho...........!

By sbcmweb (****)

Date 06-28-2008 18:24

I would have to fairly & respectfully to the art of smithing answer no to that, SD. I can do some simple stuff & have done some vine & leaf by hand, but a true blacksmith's skills FAR exceed mine. I don't have a forge, I use a torch. Very limited room in my shop now! Most of the ornamental stuff I have done has been simple twists, cutout & hammered shapes & using tubing & pipe to do more of a "decorative art" than true wrought iron. I did a gate for my mom that had several hand hammered leaves on it & I attached then to stems made from round stock that I flattened out a little & curled up at the tops to represent flowers. Not true smithing, but it turned out really nice. I did another gate with a bunch of cut out letters & shapes. It was real time consuming (I did it with a plasma cutter & ground them finished out by hand), but came out nice. My hands shake a lot & got carpal tunnel in both. I would love to learn some true 'smithing one day.

I am just blown away by the skill of a true 'smith. Real cool to hear you do it, Sourdough. :-) S.W.