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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / WPS - PQR - Certify Welder
- - By SammyShine (**) Date 07-23-2008 15:25
OK I'll let you know what you'll be able to tell instantly. I know nothing about welding. But I'm willing to learn. From what I understand..And I'd like to have someone let me know is if this is how it goes.
1) you write a WPS - which allows many variables to the weld process. There are variables to material type, backing material, groove angle and so on and so on and more so on's.
2a) PQR - You have a welder make a test coupon within the ranges listed on the WPS and record the EXACT measurement used on the PQR. The coupon and PQR is then sent to a testing lab where they perform testing so the WPS can then be turned into a  WPS that is "qualified by testing" ?
2a) Welder Qualification Test Record - At the same time, when you send the coupon to be tested you can also have the welder certified for that procedure?

So after these steps you have a Certified welder and a PQR or WPS qualified by testing?  which?

Also, what test have to be done for the PQR to be qualified and what test need to be done to certify welder.
Parent - - By jsdwelder (***) Date 07-23-2008 16:36
Well for not knowing anything about welding, you seem to be a quick study. Trying to explain what you just wrote to a non welder and have them comprehend it is sometimes tough. Your assessment of WPS, PQR and WQTR is just about spot on. Once you qualify the WPS by way of the PQR, the person who welded the coupon would be a qualified welder within the variables listed for the code you are working to. Again, which tests you need to perform will depend upon which code you are working to. For PQR, usually tensiles and guided bends are needed and I believe AWS requires either RT or UT as well.
Parent - - By SammyShine (**) Date 07-23-2008 17:24
Thank you so much for your response. The question I still have is once tested do you have a PQR that is certified, for lack of a better word. Or do you have a WPS that is qualified by testing?
and once the WPS is qualified by testing the welder who performed the test is certified to any weld procedure that falls in range of the WPS?

I guess my main confusion - is that there are so many variables on the WPS that it doesn't seem that it could become a vailid document at any point. What is it's purpose?
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 07-23-2008 18:56
"Certified" may not be the word, but I'm not really coming up with one either.

You have a PQR, which is a test report (report on both the welding that was done and the physical testing subsequently performed).

You have a WPS qualified by test.  You can also write new WPSs within code-defined parameter ranges (D1.1 Tables 4.5-4.7) that are also qualified by that same PQR.

Hg
Parent - - By SammyShine (**) Date 07-23-2008 21:40
OK I think I'm starting to understand better. Explaining a PQR as a test report helps. Could someone look at my WPS & PQR and tell me if I have filled them out correctly?

Oh, I guess I cant attach them.
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-24-2008 00:59
SammyShine

Here is a simple flow chart that shows the steps to generating a WPS (pre- or qualified) as well as qualifying welders to the WPS.

Please note that in step 2 the first question is answered yes only if it is the welder who performed the welding for the qualified WPS PQR and only if the PQR passed.

The D1.1:2006 references are shown in the flow chart as well.

Maybe it will help a bit. It is for reference only but you are welcome to it. I hand these out to fabricators who might be having difficulty with the code requirements.



If you prefer, I can email you the .pdf file.

ziggy
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 07-24-2008 01:31
Sammy Shine,
Just a bit to add to the others comments.
A "preliminary" WPS is sometimes written to give the recommended guidelines to the welder who is performing the PQR qualification test.
The exact variables are recorded and these are written on a PQR. The various destructive and non destructive test results are also recorded on this PQR document. If all the tests are acceptable it is then a qualified PQR.
This document usually stays in a folder in the QA Managers (or whoever is responsible for writing WPS's) office and is used as the basis for writing a new WPS.
A WPS is then written based on the PQR with tolerances allowed and also a little bit of leeway for various welders preferences. The code allows +/- on most variables and your WPS should reflect this.
This document can then be shown to or issued to the welders with the intention being that if they follow the guidelines in the WPS they should produce a weld that is mechanically / metallurgically similar to the weld performed in the original PQR.
The main reason for a WPS is to ensure "sound weld repeatability.
Hope that helps,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By SammyShine (**) Date 07-24-2008 16:44
Thanks for then info Shane. I'm going to keep all the info I received on file so I can reference it.
Parent - - By SammyShine (**) Date 07-24-2008 16:43
Ziggy, Thanks for your reply, if you could send a pdf file that would be great.

Please send to sbarras@valleytool-inc.com

Thanks again. I think the flow chart will be very helpful.
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-25-2008 02:30
SammyShine

its on its way...

ziggy
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-02-2008 17:57
cOULD I HAVE A COPY TOO
rKNIOLEK@AOL.COM
Parent - - By PipeIt (**) Date 10-02-2008 13:09
Ziggy I like that flow chart could you e-mail me the PDF?

Thanks in advance!

KoriCurrent@yahoo.com
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-02-2008 17:15
Dude!

Mee too!

That is a really nice piece of work
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-06-2008 03:08
That is a work of art Ziggy.

I like it!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By dewayne Date 10-17-2008 03:41
I would really like to have a copy also!!!!!!!!!! thanks dewayne please email it to me at dewaynelenoir@windstream.net
Parent - By Carlos Perez Date 10-24-2008 16:18
Great work on flow chart, please email me PDF file. Email is ra3429@hotmail.com.

Again, good job and thanks.

C.
Parent - By magodley (**) Date 10-07-2008 12:03
Great work on the flow chart. I would like to have it also.
Andy.

magodley@southernco.com
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 10-07-2008 15:38
and while your giving it out, I'll take one!
ctacker@bradkenamericas.com

Thanks, Carl
Parent - - By freewelder (*) Date 10-17-2008 08:44 Edited 10-20-2008 06:18
I am just curious. I am not located in the CONUS but are there a lot of shops in the US where important documents like WPS/PQR and WPQ are handled by non-technical people? If that is the case, I wouldn't want my boilers and pressure vessels made in America :-).
Parent - By Root Pass (***) Date 10-17-2008 11:56
That's OK "Freewelder" we don't want to make them for you anyway!
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-17-2008 15:18
Pretty big words coming from someone with NO profile info. I am not impressed. LOL

jrw159
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-17-2008 15:57
what we make has never been duplicated over seas ....and they have tried................BOOOM there goes another PV.
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 10-17-2008 17:29
Not true, Mike.  I have worked with some very fine vessel fabricators in both Europe and Asia.  ASME stamps and rigid quality control systems.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-17-2008 17:39
Not to mention the rather stringent PED requirements.

3.2
Parent - By kipman (***) Date 10-17-2008 17:42
True for Europe.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-17-2008 18:26
we do PED All day long , not so special.
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-17-2008 18:46
sure sure
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-17-2008 19:17
PED is just another governing body its not a magical set of books that makes special products.
We change nothing in our manufacturing to build under it, just more paper work.
MDK
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-17-2008 18:24
what we make has not been duplicated .........its more then a simple PV,any whooooo
i have seen some bad bad thigs come out of asia. We got a picture last year of a PV that burst What a mess would have hated to have been anywhere near it like a tin can blown apart.
Every one makes mistakes ...... thats why we have QC.
in the USA we have many fine shops some would put to shame the shops anywhere in the world,and some you wouldnt trust to make a water jug.In every nation there are the fly by nite shops.
MDK
Parent - By kipman (***) Date 10-17-2008 18:26
I agree with that, Mike.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-17-2008 17:19
And you are from?

3.2
Parent - - By freewelder (*) Date 10-20-2008 08:33
Whoa, hold ye horses! I meant in jest. Perhaps I should have ended my statement with a smiley (it is there now). I do not mean to mock American shops per se. I was merely amused by how respondents here are so accommodating to someone who admits knowing nothing about welding. And not that I intend to belittle the originator of this thread; I have in fact praised the person in another thread for the eagerness to learn. Really, ladies and gentlemen, a more meaningful advise would be for the person to take up night school or some part time study to learn the fundamentals of welding. That would be more helpful than trying to explain some technical questions that may require other technical prerequisites in order to understand the answers being offered. I hope this puts to rest my ostensibly offensive post.

I think it matters not where I am from. How can one say, a "U" stamp shop in Japan or a similar shop in Europe can not make a PV as safe as any similarly accredited shop in America? If you must know, the shop I work for is located in the far east. Shops in the far east have supplied PVs for Esso (Exxon Mobil), Shell and British Petroleum. The safety record I believe, is as good as any states in the US that ratifies the ASME code. And to the best of my understanding, not all 50 states in America have ratified the Code. If I am not mistaken some states only have Boiler Law while some have only Pressure Vessel Law and even a few that have no laws at all. To add to the confusion, it seems that some states only require Boiler registration while some require only pressure vessel registration and there are some that require no registration at all. Where I come from, not only is boiler and pressure vessel registration required but it is also mandatory to register lifts, escalators, cranes and any other equipment that could pose a threat to life and property.

I may have drawn a picture that the US lacks conformity and therefore, may give an assumption that the US lacks standardization. Where some states in America fail to appreciate the high standards of construction Codes offered by American Institutions, it is almost universally accepted internationally. I will explain. With the possible exception of the European market where conformance to PED is required, customers be they American or not always ask for a Coded equipment. When they talk about the Code, they mean the ASME BPV Code. We have had customers from Japan, Europe, Australia and even Russia. They all ask the same thing, "Have you got U stamp?" or ""Have you got S stamp?". And they got da CODE all over in their specifications. One may ask, why is this? Why don't these customers require that shops make equipment complying with their own national codes? The Japanese have their own codes and so do the Aussies (that is based on the British Standards). And what about Euro norm? Isn't it as good as ASME? IMO, the Euro code is still in transition from BS, DIN and other codes. It seems that it is taking forever to get a final form out where all can agree on. It is like there are too many cooks. And IMHO, the other codes are not as comprehensive as the ASME Code. So there you have it in a nutshell. The ASME Code stands as the only code that the international market can reliably depend upon. For the moment anyway.

One thing bugs me though. The ASME BPV code was drawn before AWS came into being. 1914 vs. 1919, and yet Section IX looks so much like D1.1. Which is first? The chicken or the egg?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-20-2008 10:04
AWS D1.1 was reorganised back in the early to mid 1990's with the intention of being more similar to the way ASME B&PV is organised.
Parent - By freewelder (*) Date 10-22-2008 03:16
Ah, that explains it.
- - By dannyclark Date 10-26-2018 16:59
Hello All. Digging this post up from the grave. Would anyone happen to have a copy of Ziggy's PDF they would share? I looked up and messaged Ziggy, but it appears he hasn't posted since 2012, so i'm not sure how to reach out to him. I did try to copy and print the image, but it's too blurry to make out, and I'm not proficient with any other way to do it.

Much Thanks!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-26-2018 21:50
Check the references closely....let me know if anyone sees something wrong....I re-did ziggy's flow chart in hurry.
Parent - By dannyclark Date 11-01-2018 14:21
Fantastic! Thanks very much for your help!

Pete
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / WPS - PQR - Certify Welder

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