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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Prequalified Joint
- - By unclematt (***) Date 02-22-2009 03:33
Hello all;
I am new to D1.1. In D1.1 figure 4.31, it shows Test plate for Limited Thickness. Is this a prequalified joint detail that I could use to test welders? If so; do I refer to said figure and page on the WPS? Any help would be greatly appreciated. The way I am seeing it and having gone back to 4.23.1, I could use it as a basis for qualification. I may be completely wrong. Thanks again.

Respectfully;
Matt
Parent - - By James Corbin (**) Date 02-22-2009 05:50
That figure is one of the weldor tests you can give, just make sure its the one you really need. (I personally have not done a 3/8" test plate in over 10 years, a total waist of my time, do it with 1/2" or more. Side bends are easy, with less prep to do the bends)
The Short Version:
Start with table 4.10 find the joints your weldor is going to doing, then go to table 4.11 find your joint covering the most or all being used in production, (note the thickness) this table lists all the test parameters/ranges along with the figure that goes with each test. If you don't already have a WPS for testing, write one around the process, electrode manufactures recommendations, amp/volt range that works etc. etc. etc......................... Assuming you have access to the test equipment to finish the test you are giving you can now finish the test. Note Part C - 4.18.3 will take you to 4.8.1 for visual, and don't forget 4.22, this is the most missed part of a WQTR document, see sample Form N-4.

For Prequalified joints as used in production go to Clause 3, Clause 4 is for qualification testing of PQRs. WPSs. WQTRs only. (except table 4.5 is referred to in Clause 3.6)

I posted this the other day and it may be of help to you also. I listed the code references that go along with the requested information on the documentation. Its from the 04
Enjoy

Type of Weldor (D1.1.4.1.2)(Manual or Machine)                      
Variables (D1.14 Part C.4.7 & 4.21 & 4.22 Table 4.11)(D1.5.5.24)                                       
Material / Specification (D1.1 Table 3.1)(D1.5.5.21.3)                                                 To  
Base Metal (D1.1.3.3)(D1.1.1.2 - 100 ksi yield limit)(D1.5.5.24.1.1 - 90 ksi yield limit)(D1.5.1.2.2 & 5.4.3 base metals)
Plate Thickness: (D1.1 Table 4.10)(D1.5 Table 5.7)       
Groove: (D1.1.3.7.2)(D1.1.4.23 & 4.30)(D1.5.5.23.1.2)                                                          
Fillet: (D1.1.3.7.2)(D1.1.4.25 & 4.30)(D1.5.5.23.1.3)                                                                       
Pipe Diameter / Thickness: (D1.1 Table 4.10)                                                                                                                               
Groove: (D1.1.4.26 & 4.30)                                                                                                                                            
Fillet: (D1.1.4.30)                                                                                                                                                       
Joint Type (D1.1.3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 & 3.13)(D1.1 Table 3.7 & Figures 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 3.9, 3.10 &3.11)
Process / Type (D1.1.3.2.3)(D1.1.Table 4.11 #1)(D1.5.5.24.1.2)                                                                                 
Backing (D1.1.4.19.1.2)(D1.1.Table 4.11 #6)(D1.5.5.23.1.2 & 5.24)___________Size (D1.1.5.10.3)(D1.5.3.13.4) __________           
Position (D1.1.4.23.1 Table 4.9)(D1.5.5.24.2.2)                                       
Weld Progression (D1.1.3.7.1)(D1.5.4 .6.8)       
Filler Metal (D1.1.3.3)(D1.1.Table 4.11-Item 3)(D1.1.5.3.2.2)(D1.5 Tables 4.1, 4.2 & 4.3)
Specification No. / Class (D1.1.Table 3.1)(B2.1 Table C1)                                                                   
F Number (D1.1.Table 4.11-Item 2 & Table 4.12)(B2.1 Table C1)                                    
Gas / Flux Type (D1.1.Table 4.11-Note 2)(D1.1.4.22)(D1.5 Table 5.3 #13)__________ Flow Rate _____________                              
Electrode (D1.1.5.3.4)(D1.1.5.3.2, 5.3.2.1)(D1.5.5.24.2.1)
Single / Multiple (D1.1 Table 3.7)(D1.1.Table 4.5 #11 & 4.11 #7)(D1.5.5.21.2)                                                        
Diameter / Manufacturer (D1.1 Table 3.7) (D1.1.5.3.3.1)(D1.1.Table 4.5 #10)(D1.5.5.21.2)                
Welding Procedure Specification No. (D1.1 Table 3.7)(D1.1.5.5)(D1.5.5.21.2)(D1.1.3.6)               Rev.  
Preheat (D1.1.3.5)(D1.1.5.6 & 5.7)(D1.5.4.2)                                Maximum Interpass Temperature                      
Stringer or Weave (D1.1.Table 4.6 #11)(D1.5.5.12 & 5.13 & Table 5.3)(see KJ inch heat input) 
Current / Polarity (D1.1.3.6 Table 3.7)(D1.5.21.2)  Volts ___________Amps____________ + or -Polarity_______
Travel Speed________  Rod Temperature (D1.1.5.3.2.2) (D1.5.4.5) __________CVN  _________ F° ________ lbs
Minimum required KJ inch (D1.1.Table 4.5 & 4.6)(D1.5.5.12, 5.13 Tables 5.3, 12.3, 12.4 & 12.5)          
(Volts x Amps x .06 divided by Travel speed = KJ inch) or (Volts x Amps x .06 divided by KJ inch = Travel speed)
   

       Weldor Test Information (D1.1 Annex E Form E-4)(D1.5 Annex III Form III-4)                  
Name _________  ID # _________                                            
Type of Weldor (D1.1.4.1.2)__________   Date of Test ____________             
Welding Procedure Specification No. (D1.1 Table 3.7)(D1.1.5.5)(D1.5.5.21.2)(D1.1.3.6)       Rev.          
Variables (D1.14 Part C.4.7 & 4.21 & 4.22 Table 4.11)(D1.5.5.24) Record actual values used in qualification test
Process / Type (D1.1.3.2.3)(D1.1.Table 4.11 #1)(D1.5.5.24.1.2)                                                              
Stringer or Weave (D1.1.Table 4.6 #11)(D1.5.5.12 & 5.13 & Table 5.3)                                                    
Current / Polarity (D1.1.3.6 Table 3.7)(D1.5.21.2)  Volts_____    Amps_______    + or -  polarity _______                         
Position (D1.1.4.23.1 Table 4.9)(D1.5.5.24.2.2)                                                                                                 
Weld Progression (D1.1.3.7.1)(D1.5.4 .6.8)                                                                           
Backing (D1.1.4.19.1.2)(D1.1.Table 4.11 #6)(D1.5.5.23.1.2 & 5.24) __________Size (D1.1.5.10.3)(D1.5.3.13.4)__________             
Material / Specification (D1.1 Table 3.1)(D1.5.5.21.3)__________To____________Heat #_____________                         
Joint Type (D1.1.3.9, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12 & 3.13)(D1.1 Table 3.7 & Figures 3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 3.9,    3.10 &3.11)
Electrode (D1.1.5.3.4)(D1.1.5.3.2, 5.3.2.1)(D1.5.5.24.2.1)
Single / Multiple (D1.1 Table 3.7)(D1.1.Table 4.5 #11 & 4.11 #7)(D1.5.5.21.2)                                       
Diameter / Manufacturer (D1.1 Table 3.7)(D1.1.Table 4.5 #10)(D1.5.5.21.2)                                               
Filler Metal (D1.1.3.3)(D1.1.3.3)(D1.1.Table 4.11-Item 3)(D1.1.5.3.2.2)(D1.5 Tables 4.1, 4.2 & 4.3)
Specification No. / Class (D1.1.Table 3.1)(B2.1 Table C1)                                                                        
F Number (D1.1.Table 4.11-Item 2 & Table 4.12)(B2.1 Table C1)                                                                
Gas / Flux Type (D1.1.Table 4.11-Note 2)(D1.1.4.22)(D1.5 Table 5.3 #13)_________ Flow Rate_________               
Base Metal (D1.1.3.3)(D1.1.1.2 - 100 ksi yield limit)(D1.5.5.24.1.1 - 90 ksi yield limit)(D1.5.1.2.2 & 5.4.3   base metals)
Plate Thickness: (D1.1 Table 4.10)(D1.5 Table 5.7)                                                                                                                      
Groove: (D1.1.3.7.2)(D1.1.4.23 & 4.30)(D1.5.5.23.1.2)                                                                                           
Fillet: (D1.1.3.7.2)(D1.1.4.25 & 4.30)(D1.5.5.23.1.3)                                                                                                   
Pipe Diameter / Thickness: (D1.1 Table 4.10)                                                                                                
Groove: (D1.1.4.26 & 4.30)                                                                                                                    
Fillet: (D1.1.4.30)                                                                                                                                        
Rod Temperature (D1.1.5.3.2.2) (D1.5.4.5)_________Wind (D1.1.5.12.1)(D1.5.4.14.3)________                        
Preheat (D1.1.3.5)(D1.1.5.6 & 5.7)(D1.5.4.2)_______ Maximum Interpass Temperature________             
Ambient Temperature (D1.1.5.12.2)(D1.5.4.2)_______Weld Length______    Travel Speed__________         
Minimum required KJ inch (D1.1.Table 4.5 & 4.6)(D1.5.5.12, 5.13 Tables 5.3, 12.3, 12.4 & 12.5)                   
(Volts x Amps x .06 divided by Travel speed = KJ inch) or (Volts x Amps x .06 divided by KJ inch = Travel speed)

Appearance of welds (D1.1.4.8.1)(D1.5.6.26)(D1.5.5.21.5)(D1.5.6.4.4 Inspector observation required) 
Root pass (D1.1.4.8.1-4&5)(D1.1 Table 6.1)(D1.5.6.26.1.2)(D1.5.5.21.5)                                                  
Intermediate passes (D1.1 Table 6.1)(D1.1.5.30)(D1.5.6.26.1.2)(D1.5.3.11)(D1.5.5.21.5)                            
Cover pass (D1.1.4.8.1)(D1.1 Table 6.1)(D1.1.5.24, 5.27 & 5.28)(D1.5.3.6, 3.8 & 3.9)(D1.5.6.26)                  
Undercut (D1.1.4.8.1)(D1.5.5.27.1)                                                                                                                      
Porosity (D1.1 Table 6.1)(D1.5.5.27.4.1)(D1.5.6.26.1.6)                                                                           
Arc Strikes (D1.1.5.29)(D1.5.3.10)                                                                                                             
Name of Welding Test Witness (D1.5.6.4.4 Inspector observation required)                                 
Parent - By unclematt (***) Date 02-22-2009 14:39
Thank you James;
That list will come in real handy. I am new at this company and when I came in, they had WPS, but it was to AWS D1.1 1988. I have read that a WPS qualified to an earlier version is still in effect. This is my first shot at writing a WPS and I am trying to make sure I have everything covered. The required test for the job at hand is on 3/8" plate in the 3G position. I am going to send the strips out to have them bent. I am at a remote jobsite and don't have the necessary equipment on hand. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Respectfully;
Matt
Parent - - By petty4345 (**) Date 03-27-2009 14:11
Can you tell me where maximum interpass is stated in D1.1?
I only find minimum preheat and interpass in 3.5.1 and table 3.2 also does not address maximum.
I had this come up yesterday.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 03-27-2009 14:43
In table 3.2 note C addresses it for certain materials, as does clause 5.7 for quenched and tempered steels. I do not seem to find it addressed anywhere else, but I could very well be missing it.

jrw159
Parent - - By petty4345 (**) Date 03-27-2009 14:58
I agree, the "debate" yesterday was about A-588 and a-36.
I can see max. temp. affecting impact values, but not required on this project.
Parent - - By James Corbin (**) Date 03-30-2009 01:19
Yes it does mention maximum interpass temperatures in a round about way. In Table 4.5 (36) as a decrease of 25 degrees from the PQR or as long as the provisions of 5.6 are met and in Table 4.6 (7) as limiting the preheat & interpass temperature to no more than 100 degrees above the PQR.  That is why you always list "ALL" the as tested parameters on your PQR docs. Later you can write your WPS as needed for the application used. When you don't record EVERYTHING that happened you can't go back without retesting some or all.
Also, I always do CVNs whether needed or not. It's cheaper the first time around. (Its already at the lab)
The D1.5 also has max interpass provisions by application.
I normally list my WPSs Max interpass temperature as 450 degrees, targeting the PQRs WPS interpass temperature to the same.

Check you own application to see if these may have an affect your WPS.
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 03-31-2009 00:28
James,
Regarding the impact testing, if it is not required by a particular spec at the time you are running your test plates how do you determine what testing variables to use (i.e. temperature, notch location, etc)?
Mankenberg
Parent - By James Corbin (**) Date 03-31-2009 03:03
Without being in a specification I can experiment - Now it depends on the application and what I'm trying to check & how the testing went down. Just as an example if it's a thick test plate and the interpass temp was high & the kJin is high I might use -20F & 3 samples across the middle of the weld, similar to D1.5 FCP and compare that to the filler manufactures results. My lab gives me a great price when ordered up front so why not. The info has affected how I write my WPSs for up coming PQRs.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Prequalified Joint

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