Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Squared gusset slots in brace frame HSS
- - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 06-25-2009 02:01 Edited 06-25-2009 13:42
OK, here's the deal, I'm on the hunt for D1.1 or AISC references on HSS slots for gusset plates. Contractor has burned them out and left them essentially squared out in the end of the slot. I am used to seeing them rounded. These HSS members are also galvanized. I am aware of the problems with beam cope radius and weld access hole geometry in regards to galvanization. What I really need is a code reference to stand on before I bring this up to the contractor. Someone has suggested this may be considered a re-entrant corner. Any Suggestions?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-25-2009 02:42
I can't give you chapter and verse while I'm on the road. Maybe I can dig something up this weekend. Sorry for putting you off.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 06-25-2009 19:33
D1.1 Clause 5.16
Reentrant corners of cut material shall be formed to provide a gradual transition with a radius of not less than 1 in.
Parent - - By Duke (***) Date 06-26-2009 11:46
Nothing in the drawings?
Parent - - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 06-26-2009 12:16
Nothing in the structurals or the specifications either.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-28-2009 12:51
I couldn't find the reference book I was looking for, the best I can do is agree with HgTX.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 06-30-2009 04:25
OK, so a reentrant corner is like an inside radius. Right? My gusset plate is only 3/8". How can I have a 1inch radius(2 inch diameter in a slot that is only 3/8" thick?
I'm not sure this 5.17 clause applies to this situation. I am going to try and have the engineer add a stipulation to the contract .RFI I guess. Thanks, ya' all.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 06-30-2009 11:14
We have a shop standard that covers that raduius's be rounded when cutting HSS slots in tubes.  I'm not aware of the requirements in the code.  It more a commen sence issue and keeping cracks or tears from starting at the square corners.  Good Luck
Parent - By flamin (**) Date 06-30-2009 12:30
At a minimum, I would at least make a full radius at the end of the slot, and eliminate any sharp corners.

Jason
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 06-30-2009 15:08
I think 5.16 applies, but you can only put in as much radius as you can fit.  There are practical limitations that outweigh code provisions.  So if code requires 2" diameter, and all you have room for is 3/8", then you do the 3/8" (or, I suppose, someone might want you to drill a larger hole at the end there, but let's not go there yet), you don't just say, "Oh, gosh, no room for 2", so all bets are off and I can have a miter finish to a perfect 90-degree cut."  (And, of course, by "you" I don't mean you.)

Another provision that isn't exactly relevant but can be used for guidance is 2.3.4.2.  It's talking about slots for fillet welds in slots, not quite the same as your application, but it's still a point of reference.  2.3.4.2 says the slot has to have a radius at least the thickness of the plate in which it's made.  (Again, if your HSS wall thickness is less than twice the gusset thickness, you do what you can.)  2.3.5.2 says the same thing about slots made for slot welds.  I think that's enough to take this as general slot practice, no?

Hg
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-30-2009 16:03
Several of the fabricators I have worked with (as the third party inspector) drill a hole where the slot will terminate. They then torch cut the slot and terminate at the drilled hole. A couple of the fabricators drill the hole oversized by about 1/8 inch so there is no notch where the slot and the hole intersect. The other fabricators drill the hole the same size as the plate thickness and grind any notch smooth should there be one where the torch cut intersects the drilled hole.

The drilled hole provides a smooth workmanlike finish and eliminates any sharp notches at the end of the slot.

HgTX's approach on the subject is very logical and makes sense.

Best regards -Al
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 06-30-2009 21:31
The figures in the commentary to Clause 5 of D1.1 address some of the issues regarding notches between drilled & torched portions of the slot.

I wonder...how hard would it be to take a 3/8" drill to those slot ends, and would the slight elongation of the slot (3/16" in each direction) be a problem?

Hg
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-01-2009 01:42 Edited 07-01-2009 01:45
I just did a quick search of the web for some information on weld details for gussets and HSS and found this structural detail.

It was interesting to note they specified  a 1 1/2 inch diameter hole at the end of the slot in the HSS even though the gusset was only 7/8 inch thick.

Best regards - Al
Attachment: SignageTubular.pdf (268k)
Parent - By elliotwilson Date 01-27-2017 18:49
The AISC Construction Manual (14th addition), Part 16 (Specifications and Codes), Chapter M (Fabrication and Erection), M2. (Fabrication), 2. (user note).

"Reentrant corners with a radius of 1/2 to 3/8" in are acceptable for statically loaded work.  Where pieces need  to fit tightly together, a discontinuous reentrant corner is acceptable if the pieces are connected close to the comer on both sides of the discontintinous conrner.  Slots in HSS for gussets may be made with semicircular ends or with curved corners.  Square ends are acceptable provided the edge of the gusset is welded to the HSS"
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Squared gusset slots in brace frame HSS

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill