What Happened to the OFF TOPIC ?

Date 07-24-2009 12:56

We are going to concentrate on welding matters. Posts in forum boards that are not relevant to the stated topics will discouraged.

Ross
AWS Marketing

By CWI555

Date 07-24-2009 13:05

Ross,

It was a popular topic. Am I to understand that AWS is going to exercise censorship now?

By ross

Date 07-24-2009 13:12

We are going to focus on welding issues -- the real value of the forum, which is increasingly used by the educational community.

Ross

By CWI555

Date 07-24-2009 13:18 Edited 07-24-2009 13:47

I see. I guess political correctness was inevitable. For those of you that still wish to be able to speak your mind. I would recommend gunbroker.com forums. No purchase necessary, and seems to be a good forum.

By KSellon (****)

Date 07-24-2009 14:38

thanks for the lead--

Off the Topic was interesting, because it allowed all of us to see the difference in opinions of people in the same line of work.

By RonG

Date 07-24-2009 13:18 Edited 07-24-2009 13:27

It seemed as though it was being held captive by special intrest groups. :-). But then it was titled "OFF TOPIC".

I have to admit I did like reading some of the tirades, they broke of some of the daily routine and some made me feel better kind of like I had gotten my way at times.

By BryonLewis (****)

Date 07-24-2009 13:59

Censorship, which I'm not against, or not, I applaude this action. I haven't posted much or even viewed the Forums much lately. But I did find the Off Topic section to become increasingly hostile and a venue of obsurdity.

Now back to business. :-)

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 07-26-2009 19:21

Wrong there Ross. The VALUE of the forum is the CONTRIBUTION of the MEMBERS!
Others receive value BECAUSE the MEMBERS CONTRIBUTE!
whatta a waste!

By darren

Date 07-27-2009 03:37

have to agree here with dbigkahunna.
the value is the contributors, without them the aws is just an empty website.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 07-27-2009 05:10

Guess I'll have to find me a non welding related avatar too as I see all those other ones that have nothing to do with welding related issues and business get to stay ?

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-24-2009 13:34

I was in the process of posting one of my longest "Off Topic" posts ever. And though many enjoyed the section, I support the decision. When welding related posts start getting censored, then that is reason for serius concern.

With the advent of so many avenues for discussion groups to form, those interested could form groups in other ways (Skype "geraldIuka", Twitter "weldingteacher" , Facebook etc) and send PM's to those people on this forum of whom they would like to discuss issues with .

I had a pretty lengthy post ready to send that I'd be glad to share with anyone however it has nothing to do with welding but was thankful I couldn't post it .

Thanks

By RonG

Date 07-24-2009 15:55

Gerald, was it kinda like you had taken a deep breath and was forming the words when all of the sudden some one slapped you on the back and made you exhale before you could even get a peep out?

I will take the time to read your thoughts, not I don't have better things to do, I have always valued your in put on or off topic should you care to send it my way.

By Revjsnizzle (**)

Date 07-24-2009 16:46

I miss my jokes thread....alot of good material in there.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 07-24-2009 19:45

Really, going to miss the jokes :( I should have stuck to jokes ? Someone got mad about political stuff I added welll....... :P :)

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-24-2009 16:53

It was a pretty long post. I realized what was happening when the computer was slow to respond so I copied what was on the screen from the top down. That didn't include what was above but only the last paragraph. I PM'd you with the content that I saved and the jist of what the rest of it said.

It was nothing profound or more valuable than the other fine posts that I have seen in the off topic area however its value should not outweigh the decisions of the fine people that have allowed me to run my mouth for so many years. PM sent.

By jrw159

Date 07-24-2009 18:49

Gerald, I would Like a PM or e-mail of this as well if you so desire.

jrw159 :-)

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 07-24-2009 20:22

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 07-26-2009 19:16

About the only thing I get/got from AWS that has any useful value is this forum. The welding journal is pretty much a joke and inspection trends ranks up there with WJ. I just re-uped for 3 years and you marketing genus decides to remove one of the more popular areas of the forum.
The forum is the only part of the AWS web site I ever go to and the only one I really care about. I have learned a lot from my peers and hope I have contributed a little along the way.
But no sense spending a lot of time here reading or contributing.
You control the site, we controlled the content.
You want both?
Have at it hand!
Adios!
BABRT's

By lonestarwelder7 (**)

Date 07-27-2009 00:57

I agree with u kahunna.

By darren

Date 07-27-2009 03:50

have to agree again the most attractive product you serve is actually the knowledge given freely on this forum and aws profits from that free knowledge.
kinda having your cake and eating ours too.
i come here to find out more about welding, lend a hand when i "think" i can and most of all some social discourse with some peers.
maybe a revisit on how this was handled is in order.

By ctacker (****)

Date 07-27-2009 03:57

"I have learned a lot from my peers and hope I have contributed a little along the way."

I would say you Contributed ALOT!
I hope you decide to keep contributing too!!
I wish you the best Regardless!!!

Regards,
Carl

By OBEWAN

Date 07-24-2009 16:58 Edited 07-24-2009 17:11

Well, the other welding forums still have off topic. We can always go to weldingweb.com to post our daily rants.

My employer is cracking down on the web though. In theory, visits to any web site for other than “company business” are "forbidden". The servers have spyware that watches people, and if we go to an “unregistered” website, a window pops up on the screen telling us to verify official business, yada yada, and enter our employee number and password. But things have gotten crazy. Now, when I go to my materials suppliers or materials info databases, I get my paddies slapped. But, I can still go to blogs, and banks, and restaurants, and newspapers...LOL

My take is that they have always spied on us though. Once, I was logged into aws.org, and the Milller welding forum, Hobart welding forum, and weldingweb.com all at the same time. Well, a series of windows and warning messages popped on my screen and logged me out of every open weld blog window. The message said: "Social networking forum - Policy Forbidden!" LOL It only happened one time, but I suspect it may come back to haunt me.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-24-2009 17:06

We could start whiningwelders.com . $5.00 domai. 4.99 a month to host . NO FITTERS allowed ? Just because you can tack doesn't mean your a welder !! :)

There is TONS of useless information on weldingweb. But ALSO a great deal of good stuff.

By js55

Date 07-24-2009 18:48

Though some statements made can be interpreted as questionable and of concern(seen them in the joke thread as well though I saw scant indignation there). I have failed to see this problem as rampant. I also felt that such 'censuring' could have been performed on an individual basis (and assumed that it would be such-dopey me) as opposed to such a comprehensive measure.
Having said that, I also am amazed that so many seem to have had trouble with some of the discussions and yet could not bring themselves to essentially censor themselves by not opening up the thread in the first place. I mean, if there is something on television I do not wish to watch, I don't.

By jrw159

Date 07-24-2009 18:56

My thoughts, however unimportant or insignificant as they may be are, I feel there is no place for racism here at the AWS forum. IMHO the culling of the "Off topic bar & grill" may be a little on the extreme side due to the fact that the "race" issue was not running rampant throughout it and probably could have had better results by dealing with the individuals but I will not argue with the decision to remove it.

Hopefully, in time, it will be restored and we can all count this up to a lesson well learned.

jrw159

By RonG

Date 07-24-2009 19:52

OBEWAN, I have convinced our IT people that this Forum is an on going training site and and absolute must to stay abreast of the ever changing field of welding.:-) It has worked so far and we have some really tuff security.

By OBEWAN

Date 07-24-2009 20:13

I don't think our IT will ever block access to AWS, but with their new spyware they can keep track of which websites are visited and how many times a day.

I keep the Google window tab open all day, and constantly click in to see new posts as they occur (while I am doing other things at my desk.) I don't know how many times I pop in, but it is probably dozens.

I don' t think they would be too big on me trying to solve other peoples welding problems if I spend too much time on it, but I am sure they would be quick to accept the help of others if they need it. LOL

If IT makes any trouble I am sure my boss will put them in their place.

By johnnyh (***)

Date 07-24-2009 21:03

R I P Off topic bar & grill.........go astros, rockets, and texans.....sorry Ross

By rick harnish (***)

Date 07-24-2009 21:24

damn.

By JMCInc

Date 07-24-2009 21:33

Couldn't have put it better myself, Rick.

By ruero

Date 07-25-2009 01:06

This is how we are slowly loosing our freedom a little at a time.

By rick harnish (***)

Date 07-25-2009 01:36 Edited 07-25-2009 01:39

Yeah, Ross, this was crap. We were not pulling guns on each other. Just a bunch of professionally related people telling each other how they feel. I found the best portion of the topics educational as well as entertaining.
Now Bryon is just another hand in my general field of expertise. No opinions, just facts. He loses his luster. I enjoyed disagreeing with most any post he made. Part of my relaxing time.
Maybe you should have gone with the politics section, as asked. Put an asteric by the title. Whatever.
Not everything in that section was political, and I feel my forum has just been cut in half.
( was there a vote or something? )
My opinion, and Im sure it is shared.
With respect,
Rick Harnish
Oh yeah, Bryon WOULD applaud this. Whats that tell a person??

By RioCampo (***)

Date 07-25-2009 02:11

I enjoyed this section myself. Just because there a couple of numbnuts on here doesn't mean were all like that.

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 07-25-2009 04:40 Edited 07-25-2009 04:46

I agree with Rob and Rick. the off topic was my relaxtion station especially the joke page oh well it's gone and i aint leaving. the other forums are full of kids that think it's mature to challenge you to a fight on the net. 1 day i will find them in person and give them what they want.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 07-25-2009 04:53

Yep all work and no play or relaxation is just too boring after a while like ..... ?????

By Mat

Date 07-25-2009 05:37

www.weldingweb.com :)

Err...not boring, but a good forum!

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 07-27-2009 05:08

BTDT joined but don't mean I like it or will visit much. Some info there but I saw more misinformation that would take years to correct and don't think those there really want to know anyway. Much more professional help on this one from those making their living at that not just a hobby.

By RioCampo (***)

Date 07-26-2009 02:03

I have noticed most of the other forums have garage welders on them for the most part.

By raftergwelding (*****)

Date 07-26-2009 07:55

I have always wondered he they can weld at all

By BryonLewis (****)

Date 07-25-2009 11:26

Although I'm always right and everyone else is always wrong, politically, it will be missed. But at least now I'll have more time on my hands to "work".

It does have some entertainment value. Not as much as dancing girls, but nonetheless, entertaining. :-)

By rfieldbuilds (**)

Date 07-25-2009 16:20

I personally visited O.T.B.A.G. first. Then looked over the D1, inspection etc. Sad to see it go. Maybe AWS will reconsider if they see the draw this has to their website. It is always nice to see the human factor brought out of some of the rough and tumble folks in these trades. Recently there was a post about your favorite place or favorite place with a picture. IMHO the O.T.B.A.G. Added the personality to this website that allowed people to share what it is that makes us what and who we are outside of our chosen career. That is a warmness missing in so much of the world. And for now, it will be missed here too. As for Byron, even the left throughout history has allowed a dissenting voice to be heard. Byron, would you vote against freedom of speech and opinion? If the AWS (this means you Ross) choses to abandon this venue, It only reinforces in my mind that AWS is only here for ONE thing--business ($$$).

How about a vote? How many FOR removing the off topic bar and grill and how many AGAINST? I for one offer the first democratic voice of a NO vote on removing the O.T.B.A.G. Who has a second vote?

By BryonLewis (****)

Date 07-25-2009 17:05

Not all things are a democracy, so its not up to me. Its the AWS's servers and IT people that maintain the Forum. If they choose to remove that portion of the Forum then its their perogative. There are many other venues for the banter which took place in there. If I need some assistance on something related to my profession then I can come here and seek advice. If I need to hear people b*itch and complain about politics, myself included, then there are other sites for that too.

If I want to hear some off coloured jokes then I can get those elsewhere too. Its completely out of our hands. Although some might not approve of this move, once again it is the perogative of the AWS and its agents to remove questionable threads or in this case an entire section of the forum. Forums are an added service to the welding community that has been provided by the AWS for welding information. That is their raison d'etre.

As far as the AWS being here as a business...yes its a business. If it wasen't they wouldn't charge for the seminars, books etc. The only thing free is the forum. Now if this section of the forum becomes reinstated then I'll be back from time to time. If not, c'est la vie.

By HgTX

Date 07-27-2009 20:50

Right on. People seem a bit confused about what "free speech" means. It does not mean anyone, anywhere, can say anything. This is a privately held forum, a private club if you will, and AWS gets to determine what you may do in their club.

I've seen this on another professional forum. Forum management deletes an inappropriate post, and the "offended" party starts screaming "free speech". Nope, sorry. Doesn't apply. If you're in my house and you start to say things I don't like, I have the right to tell you to shut up or get out. Likewise if I'm in your house. And we are all in AWS's house.

This is a professional forum. Its primary purpose should be discussion of welding. AWS will be judged and held responsible for everything published here under their banner, and amidst all the fun and "warmth" on the OTBG has been some pretty nasty and hateful spewage. If I were AWS, I sure as hell would not want that kind of liability.

In a way, I see elimination of OTBG as a way of avoiding censorship. If they were to pick and choose which topics were ok to stay and which were offensive enough to go, that's censorship of particular viewpoints. This way it's a clean cut; either it's on-topic (welding-related) or it ain't. No ideology one way or the other.

Hg

p.s. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

By thewelder (***)

Date 07-25-2009 22:04

if the AWS thinking on doing a democratic desition put my vote TO NOT REMUVE the O.T.B.A.G.

By swsweld (****)

Date 07-26-2009 05:07

Did I miss something? I haven't been on in a few days and now OTBAG has been pulled. Let me guess. Was it the Professor Gates arrest story? Or did AWS just get tired of a right leaning forum?
and I just sent them $455.00 for CWI renewal. Dang it. 455 and censorship too.

With all that is going on in the US it was absolutely like therapy to visit OTBAG and see people (friends) of the same profession that were concerned about the state of our nation as I am. We don't always agree and occasionally it gets a little testy but that's no different than our lives at work. Or view many of the other non welding related topics
I am disappointed with the decision to pull OTBAG. As suggested earlier, if it isn't your thing, then don't click on the topic and you won't be offended, insulted, traumatized, depressed...we wouldn't want that to happen.

Ross, this falls in line with many of our notions that little by little our freedoms are being taken from us. The freedom to voice your opinion.
I really don't have time or the inclination to join other forums, this was the only forum I have ever participated in and really liked it as it is...um...was.

I didn't agree with shutting it down (temporarily) after the election and and don't agree with it now. It was one of the most visited topics. If AWS reinstates it, it won't be the same. It's like twisting someones arm until they say I'm sorry. Those that don't want it reinstated would say that the only reason it was reinstated was because of the whiners (me)

By swsweld (****)

Date 07-26-2009 05:15

Bryon,You should edit your post to say, "I'm never right, I'm always left." :)

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 07-26-2009 05:49

I was gonna post something about social security and our congress and senators and whamo!! No OTBAG......

That was a good place to get to know folks on here as far as their outside of work face. Now, just strictly business.

By ctacker (****)

Date 07-26-2009 18:53

"Now, just strictly business. "
not even that, at least at work I can tell a Joke!!! :)

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-27-2009 06:30

All in all, after some thought, I am in favor or removing Off Topic. It seems it had been receiving more traffic than the regular posts and while we all seem to enjoy each others company the common bind is a love of the welding field. The political disussions and rants were getting a bit weary to me, of course I didn't have to come visit Off Topic but some of the conversations clearly didn't fit with the professionalism I'd hope we all aspire.