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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Chinese Bolts
- - By L51174 (**) Date 03-10-2011 19:24
I am currently researching instances of non conforming, or blatantly counterfeit, Chinese bolts in an effort to dissuade continuing use of them in our product. Can anyone point me towards a persuasive article(s) on the subject?

Thank you
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 03-10-2011 23:28
I'm sure if you Google "Chinese bolt failures and counterfeits" you'll find all the info you'll need.
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 03-11-2011 06:01
Hah, we just had all the threads come off a Taiwan socket head cap screw today.  The threads came off the bolt in one piece.  Looked like a spring.  That was the 4th one to do so out of our box of 10.  Bought from Grainger online so country of origin wasn't evident or I would not have bought them.

This kind of stuff is asking to get somebody hurt.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 03-11-2011 14:28 Edited 03-11-2011 14:33
Buying from Grainger, Macmaster Carr, MSC, Etc., is for maintenance people.  When you buy fasteners to a specification, you should buy from a legitimate fastener manufacturer or supplier. You should also know what the "specification" is for the fastener product you are ordering, and be sure it is ordered to that specification on the purchase order.

Structural fasteners also have special "application rules" that must be observed, (such as with galvanized bolts and nuts) and usually only  the structural fastener suppliers will know these rules.
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 03-11-2011 20:42 Edited 03-11-2011 20:45
What Joe said is the way you must proceed if you want something to be correct and have traceability. Other wise you get what you pay for as direct reflection of the quality you put forth in obtaining it. You want cheap you get cheap. :grin:

I'm not trying to be a smart @$$, its just that, if a job is worth spending time as you say doing research to blame the manufacture you also need to look into the planning that went into the job (or lack there of).
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 03-11-2011 19:04
It's necessary to clear up that People's Republic of China (usually called Communist China) is one thing and Taiwan (usually called Nationalist China) is another one and they shouldn't be taken one for another.
In my opinion, when 51174 mentions "Chinese bolts", he's referring to bolts made in Communist China, right 51174?
I'm surprised that Blaster's bolts went spoiled when trying to use them for the first time. I've always believed that Taiwanese industry was far better than Chinese one.
What I can say is that here at Mackenzie Presbyterian University in Sao Paulo, we have recently bought two lathes for the machine shop where mechanical engineering students practice. The lathes were bought for a ridiculously low price. So is their quality. They're good for practicing mechanical engineering students, but not for being used in a good machine shop.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - By weldstudent (**) Date 03-12-2011 21:09
is that the same bolt used in the flaring tool for the stool top, if not when i built my stool the bolt used did the same thing. the threads just came off leaving a smooth "stud" where the bolt should have been.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-11-2011 23:34
For decent research that may have been done, contact the RCSC and see if they have anything.

Research Council on Structural Connections
http://www.boltcouncil.org 

c/o  American Institute of Steel Construction
One East Wacker Drive, Suite 700; Chicago, IL  60601

If anyone has research or investigative papers on the issue, they should have it on record.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-12-2011 05:02
Giovanni  I would have to agree that the Taiwanese have in general better industrial practice then the Chinese.   I would also agree on the machine tools....I have had the opportunity to run some of these inexpensive mills and lathes.....ummm I might use them for rough in work before I actually pass the stuff to the machine shop but that's about it....you hit the nail on the head..ok for teaching fundamentals but not for actual work.

I had no idea about counterfeit bolts...but when I give it any thought at all it is no surprise and I am mad at myself for not considering it.  I will be a bit more inquisitive the next time I order some graded fasteners.
Parent - - By L51174 (**) Date 03-14-2011 20:09
Thank you all for your replies, and thank you Brent, I gleened a ton of info from that source.

What I'm referring too, the company I work for has been burned because a supplier of a major component, has assembled it with couterfeit bolts, origin Red China. These bolts are stamped, came with CMTR's, metallurgy, everything, but the documantation was false. Now, my company is stuck with the repair replacement, and the silly thing is, our purchasing gurus want to buy the replacement bolts from, where else, Red China. I was looking to avert that, and didnt have as much time as I would have liked to put together a persuasive argument.

The problem is solved now, and we are replacing with US made fasteners.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-14-2011 22:15
Glad it was of help.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 03-14-2011 23:17
L51174
Try the DOE (Department of Energy) web site. They have some of the best info and training on counterfeit products and material.

Hope that helps
Jim
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 03-14-2011 23:56
This DOE training manual has some very good info and pictures of counterfeit bolts and other items:

http://www.hss.energy.gov/CSA/CSP/sci/SCIAwarenessTrainingManual062007.pdf
Parent - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 03-15-2011 23:08
MBSims,
10-4 that is the one I was referring to. I went through the DOE training at the WTP project at Hanford. 8 hour class very good info.

Jim
- By ravi theCobra (**) Date 03-14-2011 23:54
To all  -

Take a look at the material the U.S. Army  Tank Command put out  ~  22 -25 years ago  re:  Foreign Bolts.

I believe  Chrysler ran the plant in Lima,Ohio  then
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Chinese Bolts

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