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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 1/8" minimum material thickness
- - By Marvinrex Date 11-25-2013 23:15
Does anybody know if there is a way around the D1.1 minimum material thickness requirement?  Don't see why we have to qualify to D1.3 for the sake of .005".  Example: welding .120 wall tube to 1/4" plate.  120 wall is .005 less than 1/8".  I've run into this problem before and the quality assurance engineers were all over it on one particular job.  Most engineers wouldn't even catch it.  What's your thoughts?
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 11-26-2013 01:01
Does not matter what we think. Run that question by your project engineer.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-26-2013 02:43
If you mic it you may find it even thinner than that.  Tolerances you know, always less than specified to save materials.

I agree with ctacker, the engineer can apply however he wants.  But it is his call. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 11-26-2013 12:32
Or when checked with a mic, the material could actually be a tad thicker, as I've seen it before.  Tolerances are not always less than specified, but more often than not, they are, at least based on what I've experienced over the years.  Just wanted to make sure we didn't give Marvin the wrong idea on that one.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-26-2013 12:46
You are right Scott, the tolerances go both ways.  But, how many two by fours have you seen even hit 1 3/4 X 3 3/4 now days?  Same with the majority of steel mills, they always shot for the lesser mark in order to 'stretch' materials and dollars.  Though I too have seen a couple that were to the heavy side.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 11-26-2013 13:02
Just about all the steel we buy comes thick. Of course we buy direct and are charged by weight not by piece. It is also always a bit oversized in length and width as well (still within tolerance). They know what they are doing. :wink:

jrw159
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 11-27-2013 04:38
You must be closer to the mills than us, all the plate we are turning into 72" pipe is supposed to be 1 " nominal thickness and measures about .96". The longer train ride must be wearing the material down. :lol:
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 11-26-2013 13:07
Typically engineers don't scamper around with a micrometer, sheet metal gage, or pair of calipers.

They review the bill of materials against the project plans at the most.  Which in fact is what they ought to be doing.

If the call out is for a material thickness that is less than the code allows... It is the engineers issue from 8 O'clock day 1.

Nothing wrong with bringing this to the attention to the engineer in authority so that a determination can be made.  If you have a solution in your back pocket, bring that with you :)

D1.1 and D1.3  do have some cross talk in the text....  But we have found it typically easier to have procedures in writing for both.
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-26-2013 17:26
Every rule has exceptions. Back in my days of erector engineer I walked around the job site with micrometers, feeler gages, calipers and dial gages. All that stuff was analogic, now they're digital. It took hours to align a 50 HP pump,  now it's done in 15 minutes.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brasil
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 11-26-2013 16:32 Edited 11-26-2013 16:42
Marvinex,

Paragraph 1.1 in General requirements stipulates that engineering or contract documents can modify the requirements of D1.1.   1.2 Limitations, also says you can go outside of the scope of D1.1 after engineering evaluates suitability and specifies the modifications in the contract. Hope that helps.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-26-2013 16:38
When the governing welding standard is D1.1, let's not overlook the difference between "Engineer" and engineer. D1.1 makes it clear that the Engineer represents the Owner and has the authority to modify the limitations and requirements of D1.1. The engineer on the other hand typically represents or is an employee of the contractor. AWS D1.1 grants the engineer no authority to modify the requirements of D1.1.

Al
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 11-26-2013 16:45
Yes, Engineering dept of the customer stipulates D1.1 changes or modifications in the contract to the vendor or contractor.  Correct?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-26-2013 17:47
That's how I understand it, with the proviso the customer is also the Owner.

In other words, in a tiered supply chain, the top tier is usually the Owner.

Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-26-2013 17:41
What about using AWS B2.1? That code can cover quite a variety.
Parent - - By Marvinrex Date 11-27-2013 03:05
Thanks to everyone for the variety of information.  As you might suspect, when I started to help my customer with welding specification issues, the primary concern was $$$$.  If you've already got WPS's, PQR's and WQR's to D1.1, you hate to spend the extra money qualifying to D1.3 because someone overlooked the fact that the tubing for the job was .120 wall (which falls under D1.3) and the rest of the parts for the structure are 1/4 and 3/8".  The interesting thing is that neither D1.1 nor D1.3 were actually specified on the drawing but we know where this is going and who it's for and when the parts arrive on site, "they" will catch it if not done correctly.  So, we go ahead and do what's right by providing the correct documentation to cover both codes.  We start testing to D1.3 on Monday.     

Thanks again
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 12-02-2013 19:41
I believe D1.3 excepts WQTR's qualified to D1.1 as long as the performance essential variables are maintained.  Something to ponder over.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-02-2013 23:50
It isn't up to D1.3 to say qualification to D1.1 is acceptable. Generally that responsibility is assigned to the Engineer by the applicable code.

Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 1/8" minimum material thickness

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