Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / FCAW Electrode for S460m plate
- - By wtbgwe Date 03-28-2014 19:25
Hi,

Which FCAW electrode must be used for welding 60-70 mm thickness S460m to same material?

Is E81 T1 Ni1C electrode appropriate for this application?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-29-2014 05:15
More specific details please!!!

Application? What's the application?

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-29-2014 17:31
Henry, I am tired
everyone wants the knowledge but does not want to pay for it
they want the $$$ for them
bunch of hack rod burners
I want to share with people who share back
btw the application is an underground nuke refinement plant
hope this helps
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-29-2014 22:21
How do you know this?
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-30-2014 01:41
type and thickness of material
and their first post
and been there done that
Glyn your a great man:smile:
I know some stuff:wink:
Kent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-30-2014 02:27
Yes Kent you do seem well connected and very informed!:lol:
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-30-2014 19:49
Glyn
just an old timer who has been around the block, a time or two:wink:
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 03-30-2014 21:50
lol you seem to know quite a bit! Knowledge is power! But ultimate power corrupts! Me thinks you might know more than is good for you!
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-31-2014 02:39 Edited 03-31-2014 17:27
roflmao
Glyn
I do:wink:
but so do other people here
let us share and pass on the knowledge
but some is classified:eek:
sincerely,
Kent
btw: not the best here, but I might get a vote for top 100,sad part is not my vote lol
Parent - - By Joey (***) Date 03-31-2014 04:48
Calling ESAB, this question is for you to advise :grin::smile:

~Joey~
Parent - - By Joey (***) Date 04-01-2014 01:30
There is ESAB logo in this forum but where is technical support from their rep?:roll::confused:

~Joey~
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-01-2014 04:26
Joey,
esab can not
neither can lincoln or miller
no one can
this is classified information
every government is watching
this knowledge people have to take to the grave
hope this helps
sincerely,
Kent
btw: typo, it is nuke enrichment plant............for making bombs.........have nice time thinking about that
Parent - - By Joey (***) Date 04-01-2014 05:08
I'm not sure about for making bombs you're referring:roll::red::sad:!
Pray for peace Kent:lol::grin:.
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-02-2014 04:36
S460 is a European grade of steel and is commonly used for the construction of bridges and Offshore structures. Specification is EN 10025-4. Manufacturing route is TMCR. At 70mm thick required minimum yield is 410N/mm2 with a UTS of 510-690 with impacts taken at -20C. E81-T1-Ni1 is commonly used for welding this material.
Parent - By electrode (***) Date 04-02-2014 05:31
Finally!
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-01-2014 12:05
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 04-01-2014 18:58
Interesting article!

I have come across one of the co-authors before; Anders Samuelsson. Very knowledgeable man!

He used to be in charge of product development and QC at SSAB before his retirement, which is quite a large producer/manufacturer of high strength steels.
Based in Sweden, it is quite worldwide, it also has Divisions in the Americas, I believe.

http://www.ssab.com/en/Products--Services/About-SSAB/SSAB-in-90-seconds/

Whoops! did I just post that?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 04-02-2014 08:43 Edited 04-02-2014 08:50
Just to focus in the link of the excellent article Js55 posted and what Nantong so eloquently described regarding S460M, these excerpts "zero in" on just what is to be understood regarding this type of steel...

This is from the same article verbatim, "High Performance Steels in Europe - Production Processes, Mechanical and Chemical Properties, Fabrication Properties"
"By Anders SAMUELSSON & Falko SCHROTER" and can be found on pages 106 to 109 - Starting with 5.1.4 Fabrication Properties - 5.1.4. Welding, and continuing in to page 107 starting on the 2nd paragraph...

"Use a filler material with low hydrogen content... An example of preheating recommendations from One producer is given in Table 5.1.4...
The heat input determines the properties of the weld... Low beat input increases the maximum hardness and the risk tor cold cracking, whereas high beat input decreases
the toughness... Examples of recommendations are: For S420M, S460M up to 5.3 kJ/mm; for S690Q up to 3.5 kJ/mm, depending in both cases on the combined plate
thickness. For thinner combined thicknesses, below 60 to 80 mm, the heat input must be reduced..."

"On the choice of filler material: Choose a filler material giving a hydrogen content equal to or<10 ml/100 g...
For an S690 plate thicker than 20 mm,equal to or<5 ml/100g is recommended... Regarding S460M steels matching or overmatching (Filler) material can be chosen..."

They continue with some points regarding stress relieving  until the last paragraph which gives a more realistic conclusion as to how often it's used & exceptions to normal use...

"Our general practical experience is that post weld heat treatment is not necessary... The toughness and hardness of the weldment normally meet the requirements
and is not substantially improved by stress relieving. It should only be carried out if a reduction of the residual stresses is needed for some special purpose or if
specified in the design codes."

"5.1.4.3 Cold Forming

General recommendations are found in ECSC IC 2 [5.3]... The material standards (EN 10025-4, -6) have a Note: "Cold forming in general leads to a reduction of the ductility... Furthermore it is necessary to draw attention to the risk of brittle fracture in connection with hot-dip zinc coating." For TM steels EN 10025-4 has options regarding
flangeability for material with a nominal thickness t equal to or < 12 mm and roll forming for material with t equal to or < 8 mm..."

"For the steel grades S420 and S460 the minimum bend radius is 4 times t with the axis of the bend in the transverse direction and 5 times t in the longitudinal direction...
For QT steels EN 10025-6 has an option regarding flangeability tor material with a nominal thickness t ~ 16 mm. For the S690 grade the minimum bend radius is 3.0 times t with the axis of the bend in the transverse direction and 4.0 times t in the longitudinal direction. Transverse and longitudinal refer to the rolling direction...
However, also in this respect the steels often have far better properties than specified in the standards. An example from one manufacturer is given in Table 5.1.5."

"5.1.4.4 Hot Forming
General recommendations are found in ECSC IC 2 [5.3]... According to EN 10025-4 TM steels shall not be hot formed (S460M)... If deemed necessary the manufacturer shall be consulted... Often forming at a maximum temperature of 580°C for short times is allowed... QT steels can be hot formed... EN 10025-6 permits hot forming up to the stress relief annealing temperature, normally in the range 550°C to 580°C... This agrees with the recommendations of the steel manufacturers... In practice hot forming is rarely used due to the good cold formability of these steels."

Once again, thanks for posting that link Js55!:eek::grin::smile::lol::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-02-2014 12:05
Henry,
I thought the posting of it was apropos. Though I liked nantong's post better.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-02-2014 21:19
I want ask a simply question
why has the OP not come back called me a moron and said ............it is bridge
where is this huge project?????
there are a few people here, who would be willing to go to work and get paid
and to close, this is above most of our pay grades
the question asked was something even Henry, or Al, the best imho...can not answer.
the engineer makes this decision.
thank you for your time and consideration
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 04-03-2014 00:06
With all due respect, the answer was easy to obtain if you didn't already know it, which being a euro standard is plausible as this is a US site. The fact that people on here will post all sorts of questions without any research or to even google into the matter infuriates me!
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-03-2014 02:42
Glyn
it was easy to answer
but why ask here??????????????????
who is running this job?
excuse me for saying but the engineering firms need to be called
and that was my point
and the only engineer I know on here is Dr. Crisi
you can google all you want
but as welders here we must differ to the more educated
and this is a joke cause the old timers know more
but also the engineer has the final say
hope this helps
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-03-2014 11:40
KCD 616 all questions are easy but only if you know the answers! (and it looks like I was the only one who could provide an answer).

IMHO I think so much you write in your posts, especially on this thread, is unhelpful and bordering on the misleading. I do not want to get drawn into a slanging match with you therefore I would like to ask the established long term people such as JS55, 803056 etc many of whom are no doubt Engineers such as myself to give an honest opinion on what you have written here on this topic.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-03-2014 12:00
To avoid "slinging" I'll say this.

I liked Nantong's answer.  Brief and to the point.

It is of course ALWAYS up to the original question asker to be dilligent, research the data provided, do trials if necessary and gain approvals from authority, before moving forward with any advice or information gained from questions in an internet forum.
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-03-2014 14:29
Lawrence thank you for fully complying with my request to comment on KCD 616's response to a first time poster on this forum. "Do not ask questions on welding here ask your engineer first". I thought we were here to enlighten people here who are looking for answers especially well worded enquiries such as this case. If you think "avoiding slinging" is justification for avoiding commenting on KCD 616's erroneous responses is justified and allows misleading a first time poster then that is up to you. Do you always go through life avoiding issues because you are worried about upsetting people?
How about input from other "old hands" on this issue?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-03-2014 14:47
Way to accept a compliment there  :)

You said it yourself already, and I agree..  You were the only one to answer the question in any way.   That encompasses my opinion about any other posts or posters.

kcd has made a number of postings expressing....um... distress?   about nuke technology.... I am totally ignorant about this...

But since we are not dealing with questions about isotopes, I put that aside.... He is free to worry all he wants.

You seem to have demonstrated well enough that the base metals in question have uses beyond top secret applications :)

Cheers
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-03-2014 15:02
Lawrence, thank you this time for your clear and honestly worded response.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 04-03-2014 16:05
I don't think anybody would accuse myself of being to worried about upsetting people. I've had some pretty strenuous debates with almost everybody of note in here. For me, after trying to decipher the posts of the aforementioned individual I simply just quit.
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-06-2014 07:24
misleading???????????????????
my name and location is here in my profile
can you say the same??
Kent
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-06-2014 10:24
kcd616, what has name and location got to do with anything? I am talking about the comments you are making on technical issues which fall sadly short of the usual standard on this forum (and I am trying to be polite in what I say).

John. Nanjing, China (if you are interested so much).
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-09-2014 00:58
John
thank you
as a child you dream for the moon
but as a dying old man
to be thought of as a threat
by the most powerful country in the world leaves me speechless
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-09-2014 12:48
kcd616, did you pen this yourself? it is so full of pathos. It brought a tear to my eye (the glass one).

Or is it a George W. quote?

If it is yours tell me what you have been drinking I want to try it!

Don't get too serious- always look on the bright side of life (Monty Python- Life of Brian).
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-10-2014 02:03
John did you pen that yourself?
or did Xi Jinping?
I know he had to approve it
have a nice day (mick foley)

and life has been good too me so far  (joe walsh)
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-10-2014 07:17
kcd616, you never answered my two questions.

Yes I penned it myself. Xi Jinpeng is far too busy trying to solve America's debt problems (so much of which they now own) than look at what I write.

You misquoted the Joe Walsh song. It is entitled as "Life has been good" not "life has been good to me so far".

PS think of something original.

Let's move on now.

Pedantic.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 04-10-2014 22:47
Play Nice!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-11-2014 13:01
Forum trivia

A thorough and scientific search demonstrates that the word "pedantic" has only been uttered ten times in the thousands upon thousands of conversations in the forum.

I'm shamed to admit I was not one of the users :)
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-11-2014 14:11
Lawrence,
Isn't your post a bit pedantic?
.
.
.
.
.Uh,,,,,,,, as is mine? :grin:
Parent - By 46.00 (****) Date 04-11-2014 16:42
Most threads on here are Pedantic now........
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-11-2014 16:43
Ah (Lawrence) but you will say it! (Whistler to Oscar Wilde- even though a hundred plus years on these guys quotes are still so witty).
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-15-2014 14:07
"The thankful receiver bears a plentiful harvest."

~~~William Blake
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-16-2014 01:53
I can not drink
bad liver, drank too much
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 04-20-2014 13:42
Sorry about your condition but in the words of the Great Wise One:

"No man should drink on an empty head"
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-21-2014 20:59
and an informed head will never drink government propaganda or disinformation
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 04-21-2014 21:48
Propaganda......... what lies behind us and lies before us are small matters compared to what lies right to our faces.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-24-2014 07:55
thank you Scott
well put
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-24-2014 08:04
btw
that is the lyrics
and main line
not the title
and jinpeng is working on corruption in his country:eek:
hope this helps
sincerely,
Kent
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / FCAW Electrode for S460m plate

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill