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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Quoting help
- - By jasonadams207 Date 04-30-2014 01:03
I was handed my first quoting assignment today and need a little help finding some info, I am trying to find the specifications and preheat requirements for ASTM 1022 and can't find it mentioned in D1.1, I searched online and only found the breakdown and description of the material with no mention of filler metal matching or preheat requirements.

Also, I am trying to figure out how to at least somewhat accurately estimate how much filler metal I will need for the job. Is there a formula or chart for this somewhere?
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 04-30-2014 15:16
This might help http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/1022.asp

         M.G.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-30-2014 19:57
For calculating weld volumes:

Welding Handbook, Vol. 1, Welding Science and Technology; published by AWS

The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding; published by Lincoln Electric
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 04-30-2014 22:11
Lawrence
what I started with and a crayon, and a sheet of metal, I got to write on
paper cost money
a slide rule also
I am so old
hope this helps
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By jasonadams207 Date 05-01-2014 00:34
Thanks for the direction, I'll have to add that to my reading list.
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 05-01-2014 01:00
I believe AWS D1.1 Code only pertains to structural materials: ASTM A-36

ASTM 1022 steel is typically used for moderate strength structural applications such as cold formed fasteners and bolts. It is often used in the case hardened condition. Perhaps I'm incorrect in my posting.
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 05-01-2014 11:36
I did fine it in B2.1:2009 it will give you the ASTM A numbers for 1022.

    M.G.
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 05-01-2014 11:40
I have no experience with 1022, but here's a link to a web page that indicates at the bottom of the page that preheat is not generally required:

http://www.a179.net/2012/01/15/1022-carbon-steel-bar/
Parent - By OBEWAN (***) Date 05-02-2014 12:37
Here is a link to an AWS Research Paper that I found that addresses preheat requirements for "unknown" grades of carbon steel.

I am not sure I agree with all of the data, but it does tend to fall on the conservative or "safe" side.

For 1022, using the formulae, I calculate a preheat of 647 F, but the paper uses the catch all of linking thickness to the need for preheat.

The real world need for preheat might be more of a "motherhood" issue.  From a practical standpoint, it might not always be necessary.  But, for some applications, it might be wise to ask what the odds are of the weld being subject to an impact load in a hardened condition.

Here is the link to the article.  Note that if the literal carbon content for 1022 is used to calculate CE the result is irrational since it is not possible to take the square root of a negative number.  He gets around this by suggesting use of a CE of 1.0 which is why I say this data might be overly conservative.  LOL

http://www.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_2008_11_s273.pdf
Parent - By OBEWAN (***) Date 05-01-2014 16:39
I have used the same source that Milton posted - it has welding and heat treat properties for most materials.

Here is what they say for 1022:

http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/1022.asp#General

Since I am not a rich man, nor a large fab shop owner, I do not have my own handy copy of D1.1.

However, tribal knowledge might suggest that the need to preheat would depend a lot on the material thickness in a case like this.

Look for data related to Carbon Equivalent and material thickness.  For higher Carbon EQ and thicker cross sections, a 500 F preheat might be wise.

But, listen to the advice of others as well.  My D1.1 experience is somewhat limited.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-01-2014 16:59
You sure you are talking about ASTM 1022 and not  AISI 1022.
One is stainless steel (which is why it isn't in D1.1) and the other is plain old carbon steel. Neither of which I would suppose need any special welding regimes.
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 05-01-2014 18:03
The OP said he looked in D1.1 so I though it would be carbon steel ASTM 1022.
                   M.G.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-01-2014 18:15
ASTM 1022 is not carbon steel.
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 05-01-2014 18:24 Edited 05-01-2014 18:53
Look at the e-mail address that I posted at the start. This is what I just found ASTM A1022/A1022M-13 Standard Specification for Deformed and Plain Stainless steel wire and welded wire for concrete Reinforcement. It might be SS but he was looking in D1.1.

           M.G.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-01-2014 19:38
That's why I thought it might be AISI 1022 which is plain carbon steel.
Parent - - By fschweighardt (***) Date 05-02-2014 01:18
http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/1022.asp

Theres about 10 ASTM specifications that have a grade 1022, which may be what he's looking for
A few of these are in B2.1
Parent - By jasonadams207 Date 05-02-2014 01:40
I found out from our welding supplier the info I was looking for as far as what wire and such, it IS "steel" and is welded with 71T-1 wire. Thanks for all the input, it's clear I have some studying to do to get better at the quoting side of welding! I think I will look into the welding supervisor seminar and test next... I could use the PDH for my 9 year anyway LMAO.
- - By alstonwelding (*) Date 05-01-2014 13:04
There is a book that is used as reference material for the Certified Welding Supervisor exam and seminar called Total Welding Management , by J.R Barckhoff, P.E.
It gets into welding cost estimating and the require formulas. This may be helpful to you. 
http://www.aws.org/certification/CWS/seminar.html#A
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-02-2014 11:50
Yes !

Jack Barckhoff's  "Total Weld Management"    Lives on my desk and I pass off copies of it like a crack  pusher :)

I'm pretty sure Jack did a good bit of the foundational work for the weld cost and estimating chapters in the "Lincoln Procedures Manual" and the "AWS Welding Handbook"

Any manufacturer of welded steel components who does not use Jack's *method*  is waisting money and will be crushed by those who do.
Parent - - By Fit4aking (*) Date 05-07-2014 12:39
If you pass off $99 books like they are crack I'm looking to develop a habit.  I'd love to read the book but the price tag is a bit steep when I could get a large stack of practice consumables for that much money.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-07-2014 13:21
I guess it depends on your role.

By instituting the "Barckhoff Method"   I know a guy that reduced GMAW filler metal consumption by over 20 tons in a year.

that's a pretty large stack, if you get my meaning :)
Parent - By Fit4aking (*) Date 05-07-2014 14:29
My current role is Do-Everything.

I bought a GMAW/GTAW unit to teach myself how to weld a few years ago and really got serious in January.  I just wrapped up CNC class to run a Torchmate Plasma cutter. (Almost got me fired!)  I am learning two different CAD programs on my own to design and print plans for projects.  I am also nearly a pro dumpster diver for scrap metal at local autobody shops and for left over building materials in an industrial park. (All legal)

Any information on welding, estimating, quoting, or business practices is just as important to me as structural codes and procedures.  I'm finding that most employers want cheap labor, not necessarily good labor.  (Last job offered was $10-$13 per hour for SMAW depending on quality of test. I walked on that one.)  It seems like starting a business is going to be better than trying to find the perfect employer.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 05-08-2014 04:33
Lawrence,
you quoted the bible of welding to me
the lincoln handbook
have 2 copies myself the 1973 and 1984
I agree 100%
Kent
- By 803056 (*****) Date 05-02-2014 18:45
Do not confuse ASTM A1022, Standard Specification for Deformed and Plain Stainless Steel Wire and Welded Wire for Concrete Reinforcement, with AISI 1022. Clearly they are not the same animal.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Quoting help

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