CWI Requirement

Date 06-12-2014 16:17

Overall the welding codes themselves are not in place to mandate how one runs their business. They are there as minimal standards for procedures to insure the successful completion of a project that will withstand the forces inflicted upon it and thus insure the public safety.

Having said that, the implementation of the codes by local building authorities having jurisdiction and often stimulated by the IBC will mandate more application of when various certifications will be required.

The requirements of IBC are often overlooked as to when one needs a CWI and not just the Contractor title of 'Inspector' or 'QC'. Also overlooked, the contract documents will often specify the exact qualifications required according to the Engineer of Record for that project.

The fabricator is at all times the ultimate responsible party to maintain their reputation by producing and delivering the highest possible quality product. That is where a free market comes into play and will eventually weed out those who do not live up to the expectations of the customers. But do not neglect the aspect of public safety while waiting for the free market system to work. That is where TPI and NDT inspectors come into play to protect the interests of the owner/project engineer, banks, and insurance companies. Keeping the contractors honest in their desire to increase profit at the sacrifice of quality. And that is just human nature.

It would be great to have a system in place that was perfectly prescribed and administered that mandated exactly what, when, why, who, and how all inspections were to be done. But, every jurisdiction has their own ideas and pet peeves.

Bottom line, learn the IBC requirements and pay attention to the contract documents. Most of your answers will be found there. You can find a certain amount of guidelines within the AISC Seismic and D1.8 Seismic manuals as well. They give guidelines on programs to be in place and holdpoints for inspections to be done with qualifications for the inspectors. D1.1 is more lax in some ways yet misunderstood as to the freedom to use others who are not certified.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By IowaCWI (*)

Date 06-12-2014 19:27

Thank you for responding Brent. I guess in a moment of frustration I posted just to see if there were others who experienced the same frustration. I will do what I have always done and follow the documentation to the letter. It is a bit comforting to only get one reply on the subject though.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 06-12-2014 19:35

You haven't given others much chance yet. They are working stiffs too and may just be busy at the moment. Don't take it as anything monumental, I just happened to see it.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By IowaCWI (*)

Date 06-12-2014 19:49

Your right Brent! I just took a look at JT's post about the bay bridge. Interesting read!!

By Northweldor (***)

Date 06-13-2014 23:05

But, in the Bay bridge article, doesn't the Owner/Customer appear to be colluding with the contractor, and cherry-picking CWIs to cheat the public? This is why I have never been able to understand why companies doing projects that affect public safety and welfare are able to hire and fire (and intimidate!) their own CWIs.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 06-13-2014 23:29

Ron,

The difference though is in the functions of the various levels of inspections. This is an area that gets many people confused as they don't understand the different responsibilities and accountability of the 'Contractor's Inspection' (in house QC hired by and representing the Contractor) and the 'Verification Inspection' (Third Party/Special Inspector hired by and representing the Customer usually through the Engineer of Record on the job). Then you must add the inspectors for the Building Authority Having Jurisdiction be that City, County, State, Feds, Dept of Trans for a particular state, Dept of the State Arch (DSA) in CA for schools and OSHPD in CA for hospitals, etc, etc. Everyone has their people looking out for their interests in the job. Can't blame them in our society today with so many laws, codes, standards, and law suits when anything goes wrong.

Now, in a well run system the QC dept of a Contractor should be totally removed from production. But, how does it really work that way since the owner is going to ultimately be over QC as well as production and he/she of all people is interested in profits and will usually see QC as a money hole and not as an enhancement to both quality and production.

While the article is very enlightening I think there are some facts slightly skewed because of this misunderstanding of the various agencies involved and their particular level of involvement at the decision making level of QC/QA.

The Contractor's owner, CEO, President, whoever will always have final say over hiring and firing and will often listen to his pet project manager, production supervisor and if that person gets a burr under his saddle for a QC person, CWI or not, who he thinks is slowing down production too much then you are gone. It may not even really be about production, he may not like your attitude, hair color, or just thinks his friend down the road or one of his buddy welders can do a better QC job than you or just wants to give him a job that is in 'management' instead of having to work for a living.

BUT, they can't fire the Verification Inspector or the Building Authority Inspector. Though, I have seen places where TPI's were pulled from a job because the Contractor didn't like them. Usually because they were doing their job but not always. Some deserve to be jerked and sent packing. But for the most part they need some pretty good reasons to replace a TPI. And, I have never seen a Building Authority Inspector changed in the middle of a job though I have heard of it on a couple of occasions.

Difficult process overall. Not totally clear cut and evenly applied. But, it is about as good as it gets for a system of checks and balances.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By Northweldor (***)

Date 06-14-2014 01:50 Edited 06-17-2014 12:22

Brent:

Thanks for the clarification, and it does clear up a few things, but isn't CalTrans both the Owner/Customer AND the Verification inspector? It seems to me that for an inspection system to really work well for the safety and welfare of the public, that an inspection system of third-party inspectors paid for by all contract signatories should be a requirement, completely free from employer intimidation.

(I am from Canada, where an engineer who suggested something similar in relation to the Keystone contractor (TCPL) was eventually fired*, so I am not claiming that our system is any better. It's just about a duplicate of the US system).

*Here is a description of the TCPL behaviour.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/whistleblower-forced-investigation-of-transcanada-pipelines-1.1146204

Edited to correct and insert the link.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 06-14-2014 02:15

While I could give some opinions on your questions and comments, it would really be good if some of the guys who have worked on CalTrans projects would chime in. They could give more accurate description of the process.

I'll withhold comment for right now and see what happens.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By SCOTTN

Date 08-06-2014 16:48

Good morning Sam. In my past experience, as is yours, special inspections have been waived when the fabricator is AISC certified. This approval is typically based upon review of the fabricator’s written procedural and quality control manuals and periodic auditing of fabrication practices by an approved special inspection agency, such as the AISC. Then, at completion of fabrication, the approved fabricator must submit a certificate of compliance to the building official stating that the work was performed in accordance with the approved construction documents. As stated in the exception, special inspections as required shall not be required where the fabricator is approved in accordance with Section 1704.2.2. If the fabricator is approved by a building official, then its internal quality control procedures have been reviewed and are deemed to be sufficient without the need for special inspection. That may be where the "registered" comes into play. Unless other specifics are agreed upon, on premises special inspection must be provided for fabricators who are not approved. Fabricated items manufactured in a non-approved shop and which are not provided with appropriate on-premises special inspection oversight will be rejected unless on-site special inspection can be done in accordance with Section 1704.

By SamCMS

Date 08-06-2014 18:09

Thanks Scott,
That's how I understood too and now feel more confidence about that section with your inputs.
Have a nice day and Thanks again,
Sam

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-06-2014 18:49

Sam,

You can get 'registered' with many cities (LA, Phoenix, Las Vegas-actually Clark County, etc) and other organizations such as directly through AISC. Some places will accept any of those that you may have that shows you have jumped through the hoops, others make you get theirs. The AISC one is best as many accept it as pre-qualifying you for the work.

Just because it says the special inspections can/may be waived does not mean there won't be any. Depending upon where the job is many customers will insist on TPI presence in the shop anyway, usually continuous if there are many CJP's, PJP's, and multi-pass fillet welds or if there are earthquake requirements. D1.8 and AISC Seismic add a whole new dimension to the process.

Hope this helps.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-06-2014 22:34 Edited 08-06-2014 22:38

Sam,

Another thought, many people think that just by 'joining' AISC as a member they are then 'Certified' or 'Registered' and can take jobs that require Fabrication Prequalification. Membership in the organization doesn't do anything for your 'Certification' standing. As Scott outlined, it is a process of proving you have the written procedures, practices, and ability to produce a quality product.

Ramon makes a good point that adds to my other post, the Building Authority will dictate any requirements to have a certification from their jurisdiction or recognition of another jurisdiction or an organization. This approval usually will come through the EOR and the Contract Documents and Job Specifications. But, not always. It is not at all a bad idea to check with the Building Authority Having Jurisdiction on the job being done. They will let you know of any local requirements.

The IBC is a general minimum guideline that is then modified/amended by cities, counties, and/or states to make sure local ordinances and state statutes are taken into consideration. For example, the IBC says pool fences will be a minimum of 48" high. AZ State statutes say 60" high. This must be entered into by an amendment to the IBC so that local fabricators follow the correct requirements. It is then approved by the local BAHJ and distributed either free or at a cost depending upon the jurisdiction. Los Angeles has a huge modified double volume book and it has a hefty price tag. Mainly due to Seismic Codes.

Remember, ignorance is no excuse. Just because you followed D1.1 and IBC does not mean you got it right. And if you didn't do your due diligence it is your problem. That is why shop drawings are to be submitted and approved before work begins. The engineer is then responsible for making sure all requirements are included and met. That is why engineers have to be certified and get that fancy stamp for the state in which the job is being done.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By rjtinsp (*)

Date 08-06-2014 20:45

Sam,

The authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) that you are working within would adopt the IBC and they would determine what requirements a fabricator has to meet. You should never assume that a particular certification for the fabricator will be acceptable within all building jurisdictions.

The best course to take would be to contact the AHJ and see what their requirements are.

Ramon

By SamCMS

Date 08-07-2014 11:55

Thanks all you guys for Great advises.
Sam