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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / The term Farm Code
- - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-17-2014 23:55
I wasn't sure why I never found that term offensive when I used it myself or heard it being used, but I do now.
I think It's bigotry.

I see an inadvertant offensive nature of this terminology.
Sure, you can write all the tips and tricks that don't fit into todays practices from yesterday and call it a book, but it's being used to single out, suggest lesser quality, or uneducatedness within this group.

My Uncle John was a farmer. My Uncle Steve as well. My Grand Parents broke ground. They survived some serious ****.
Farmers are proud people for rightly reason. They learned to do things.

Any person who doesn't fit the Code typical is grouped in the farm code league? Looked down on with a smugness from above.
Shame on us. Because it doesn't meet code?

I ask to be heard because from my perspective, the term is being used offensively.

On the subject of welding. By code standards, my Uncle John couldn't weld worth a crap. He had no certifications other then a drivers license and by all accounts was uneducated. His critical welds were done with Lincoln AC Transformer technology. But he got it to stick together somehow. And when it broke, he fixed it better. Never left the farm
Pete K. at 68 taught me to stretch a big truck frame. He learned to weld on the farm. But he went to school for more. Smart man. Survived ww2. They expected more out of you then for learning. They gave you more. They didn't have CWI's either back then. Or much for codes and standards. But you can only kill so many before someone is asking questions and something is done about it.
Our respected country's were built on the backs of those men.
Some how we have forgotten this.

And we pay homage to that in a slur. The farm code.

How about we call it the CWI wouldn't approve it that way code book instead?
However to be fair, if you called it, stuff to get you thrown off a job site, I'd go for it.
But lets erase farm code. Just my thoughts.
Parent - By lo-hi (**) Date 09-18-2014 00:16
I grew up in the country and saw things that would make a civilized engineer run for a train station. Some of the farms I worked on in high school still had a forge and basic blacksmith shop. I can understand your feeling about the farmer code, but I think the humor is directed more at the inexperienced mechanic, repair and I can weld kind of guy. But on that note I have seen a old time cable wrecker built out of re- bar that worked for years. Its more the newer generation that is being referenced than the old timers. Farmers that had to fix stuff could make old 6011C work and get the job done. Hats off for the old boys.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-18-2014 01:15
Truth be known, a good many of us here were raised on and learned to weld on farms.  I did.  Started fixing the farm equipment with dad's welder while in junior high school.  Learned more in Ag class in HS in a farming/logging community.  A good share of my experiences prior to becoming a Boilermaker were on log yards on LeTourneau Log Stackers and assorted other log/sawmill equipment.

It has become a humor based code to designate something done that isn't supposed to be able to stand up to scrutiny because it does not involve the public safety.  Trust me, it is not a slur/slam/degrading of farmers, loggers, or any other.  Just like a good many 'jokes' in our society, someone is at the butt of it and takes the brunt of it and often not rightly so.  You could go back to the old Pollock jokes, blonde jokes (well, maybe some are deserved), etc. 

The emphasis is not on the trade nor people involved in it but on the practices usually employed for getting things done.  Those include little regard for cleaning parts, preheat, rod storage, lo hy electrodes, interpass cleaning, and so much more.  For all that gets ignored it is truly amazing what those men who built this country, and taught many of us to weld in the process, accomplished and make work without any knowledge of what we consider 'good welding practices'.  Goes along with the 'I can fix anything with a roll of baling wire and some duct tape' idea. 

There is nothing wrong with being able to get it done on a song (or wing) and a prayer.  But, in the world of AWS expanding the knowledge of welding, codes for public safety, and certifications to show accomplishments and ability to successfully apply the required weld, the Farm Code is at the bottom of the Code ladder.  It often involves the attitude, been doing it this way all my life, why change now.  6011 was good enough for dad I guess I'll just keep using it. And so many other things that show lack of willingness to change with technology, science, and available training. 

Having said that, I am involved with Skills USA in some rural schools with farm kids who do want to learn to do it better and correctly.  Their desire is truly inspiring.  And the skills they take home hold out hope for the next generation of farm trained welders to be even better if still not qualified to pass a D1.1 weld test. 

When I look at what constitutes 'BIGOTRY', I think that is grasping at straws.  There is no bigotry involved in humor toward practices that make even those of us who grew up that way cringe.  But, I can appreciate your sentiments.  Don't expect us to drop this overnight.  Like all 'jokes', no matter how bad in taste they may be, they come and go in cycles and take time to remove from our vernacular.

Just my two tin pennies worth.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 01:59 Edited 09-18-2014 02:01
Well I think you're being unfair in saying that only farmers built this country because if that were indeed the case, we would have lost every war we fought in because us city folk don't know how to build stuff... Talk about bigotry! When I first moved into the country to get away from the hustle and bustle of city living I always had a very respectful opinion of farmers and for the most part, I still do but, please cut the crap about farmers being the only ones that built this country because now you're stretching the truth...

Did farmers build the liberty ships destroyers, cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers during WWII? And what about the bombers, fighter planes, tanks, jeeps and the trucks, or the bombs, rockets, grenades, bullets, or even the food rations? I think not! In fact if it weren't for those folks from the city, there wouldn't have been enough of these tools/ weapons or food available to beat Hitler and Tojo...

Sure the farmers did feed most of us back then but to say that only farmers built this country and not give any credit to the folks from the city or suburbia is even more of an act of bigotry IMHO...

Please remember that this is the United States of America not the farmers states of America or the Cities states of America because if you think it's al right to think so lowly towards city folk aren't you committing the same act that you claim is being done towards the farmers? Remember that United We Stand and Divided we fall so cut the crap already and get with the program already!!!

Drinking wine is okay by me but whining about such petty stuff is really ridiculous... Sort of like how our out of touch Congress acts towards each side of the House or the Senate... Immature is probably a compliment compared to how they behave most of the time IMHO.

Have you even read the farm code? I ask this because once you do, you'll definitely have a different opinion and probably laugh yourself off your chair! I strongly suggest you read it first before getting offended... Sooo - what sort of crops did you grow? How many people did I rob when I lived in NYC? NONE! Not everyone from the city is a criminal.

Respectfully for the most part,
Henry
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-18-2014 07:39
LMAO. You rile up real easy Henry. Or maybe it's just me pushing the right buttons? No offense intended, little fun maybe.
But I'm too tired to do much more than give a thanks to you and Brent for the replies to the post. 
Thank you both.
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 09-18-2014 11:47
I grew up on a farm too.  Even back in those days, the fuel prices kept on going up, and my family eventually couldn’t afford tractor fuel to tend to the fields, so we ended up having to sell everything.   Before we got that tractor, we plowed all the fields with a horse.   When we could no longer afford tractor fuel, I remember dad walking the old horse out of the barn and hitching him up, but it was no use.  The horse was just too old to pull the tractor.  Anyway, at one point, there was actually a draft of a Farm Code Manual back in 2002.  I don’t know if it was ever approved, and if so, how often it’s updated, but here’s a link to the 2002 code, affectionately known as the “other big red book”.  It is chaired by Al, and Lawrence is the secretary.  It’s contributors are a virtual who’s who of the welding industry, many of whom are contributors to this great forum:
 
http://aws.org/mwf/attachments/83/79983/farm_code_20081Draft110-Dec-08.pdf
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 09-18-2014 12:25
Scott,I'm glade you found the farm code. I looked throught it and notice some of the people lsited is no longer with us and they are miss.I don't think anyone on this forum would make fun of anybody trying to get something repaired to get back in the field to harvest his or her crops. I don't take anything said personal and neither should anyone else. The forum is to have discussion about welding and inspecting in general. You know I hope everybody has a good day.

                     M.G.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 14:59 Edited 09-18-2014 19:24
I got no buttons left to push except when someone uses the word bigotry and points it towards the direction of the few in here who have stuck it through and through in here for many moons now... It's very hard to distinguish between someone making a joke and someone genuinely taking issue of something that was made up to become a vehicle if you will for fostering humor within this forum as well as outside of this forum too...

I also reacted to your comments about how the farmer has been the one who built this country which to me is something I hear from folks here in East Brady, PA where I live on a constant basis, and how the folks here for the most part react when told that one comes from the city and has escaped the hustle and bustle for a more peaceful way of living as well as escaping the feverish pace one must live to if they want to survive in the city...

Generally speaking the folks here are very friendly and I appreciate this quality... However, once one just mentions that they're not from around here or didn't grow up on a farm their reaction towards the individual is a classic case of bigotry, prejudice and down right racist aif I add that I'm of Hispanic heritage... So yes, I am sensitive about people in general expressing themselves in this manner yet nowadays instead of yelling it's clobbering time and throw them a beating if they push the issue enough, I just say "Well now! Thanks for sharing this sentiment you have towards folks like myself... Have a nice day." Which actually means just the opposite with the tone and mannerism I use to express those three words...

So you might say that I have mellowed over the years... Look, you can't take the city boy out of someone if you put them anywhere else from the city and that's one of the reasons why I wrote what I said... And the so-called farm raised people who for whatever reason currently live in a retirement home such as the place I choose to reside in are always ribbing me about how bad it must have been growing up in the city, and whether or not some criminal in the news from NYC is related to me, or did I grow up with any of them, or did you socialize with any of them, and then ask me if I have ever been arrested, or have I ever committed a crime, or even ask if I ever committed a murder...

When this sort of questioning and probing me without any basis for doing so happens day in, day out you sort of get tired of hearing how they constantly express their pride about the fact that they were raised on a farm, and how there's practically no crime whatsoever in rural America so don't bring any here speech especially if it's done in a manner that strongly suggests that they're warning you to walk a straight line here in these parts or else... You just get tired after  almost five years of living the the country coming from the same individuals regardless of whether or not they're young or old...

Lately when I have to endure this type of bigotry - if that's what you want to call it, I use a new one word response to their opinions and thoughts... I simply say "ARGO!" which I use to shorten what I really want to respond with... If anyone has seen the movie they surely would understand what I really mean when I use the word "ARGO"as a response and since this is a family atmosphere based forum, I cannot divulge what I really mean when I use that particular term towards another person or persons... After I express the term confidently, I wait for their response...  And then just either ride away in my power chair or no longer pay any attention to them any longer, nor do I acknowledge their existence afterwards...

Call it what you want but, that's how I roll literally speaking... For the most part, the people from these parts are nice folks yet, there's handful who  are lucky that I'm disabled and because of this, their physical condition is safe around me... Boy are they lucky! they're also very ignorant about their own personal opinions towards people from the city like myself. before I close my eyes for the night, I do pray for them to open up their minds to diversity and one day soon enough, my prayers will be answered... I may no longer be alive but my prayers will be answered nonetheless. So have a nice day Plasma 56 and remember to give credit to those who deserve it and when you get a chance read the farm code... How's that for a laugh?

Respectfully for the most part,
Henry
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-18-2014 20:21
Hello Brent.

Gone are the days of yesterday. I miss them. Life was simpler. It was good or bad. Limited grey.
But the new day just means a fresh start. Like the seasons or a new welding process. We learn to grow, adapt, and painfully adjust.

I was told when you go to Ireland you kiss the Blarney Stone and you then speak with elequence. Well, I missed that journey and I'm told the locals take fun in peeing on it so that ain't going to happen. But as you mentioned, communicating  thoughts, feelings, emotions over the net isn't easy.

You know I see a different picture.  Your words and explanation present a softer view of this understanding. And your right, I was stretching it a bit to use the term bigotry.
A bird flys over and drops a turd on the back of a chicken. The other chickens see it think it's a bug and start pecking at it. Next thing they see is the red spot and pick further. Pretty soon the chicken is dead.

I know the hearts of gold that abound on this forum. The effort it takes to learn the stuff you guys know let alone keep track of it, apply it and share this vastness of knowledge yet with others.

But as Rocky Balboa said when he spoke to the world, "If I can change, you can change, then everyone can change".
Until then we push a rock toward it.

All good in my world, and hopefully yours as well.
Again, thank you as well as all others for their sharing of views.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-18-2014 22:49
Stood right there looking at it, took it's picture, but sure didn't kiss it.  What a position to get into for the sake of a picture.  Part of the attraction I guess.  Sooo, don't guess there is any of the aforementioned 'eloquence' here.  But, hopefully, as per Rocky's sentiments based upon the quote, we do what we can. 

Yes, there are a lot of good hearts here and believe me, I have had my moments with some that now are considered even closer friends after we worked through the misunderstandings, miscommunications, and sometimes just agreed to be friends even though we disagreed.  But the internet does indeed make that more difficult at times because we get our back up thinking something was meant when it wasn't meant that way at all.  But, we have covered all that ground on several other threads and I think avoided the need to rehash it here.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 09-25-2014 12:21
Everybody must be rained out!
- - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 16:27
Do you know the difference between a Weldor and a Farmer?

..........
................

..... The Weldor doesn't think he can farm. :lol: :eek:

Actually that's not true. I have yet to meet a Weldor that doesn't think He/She can do anything, and do it better than anyone else!

Seriously though, don't take it so seriously.

That's all I can say as the other replies pretty much sum up my thoughts on it.

jrw159
Parent - - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-18-2014 19:06
Brent said,  "Differences do not enemies make, but miscommunications and misunderstandings and coming from different backgrounds don't make it easy.  And the internet doesn't always make the best form of communication".

Henry, I wasn't disputing we owe more to many besides farmers, we do. I am inclined to agree with most all you say or post.
I have changed my thinking to avoid what I thought to be negatives toward a person or group just because they were different or held different views other than my own. You weld like a farmer. Your as smart as a farmer. No cure for stupid?
I am inclined to agree the word bigotry was past delicate on increasing conversation to my perception of a concern. And while inadvertently trying to change your view, I'm sharing mine.

But in the interest of perserving the position this group holds, think about it.
Good book. But I don't buy the argument for it's inclusion in conversation.

In answering to a higher authority, comes the responsibility to follow ones beliefs.
Gay Rights. Legal Weed. Government accountibility. Times change slowly.
The right to bear arms and defend a nation from suppressors.
I'm cool.
jrw159. It's all good. I used to be serious. Now I'm just...increasing awareness.
I planted some corn in the yard this year. To rainy early on. But it was fresh. And really, I'm talking corn.  I know a few welders who made good farmers lol. They live in BC were the climate is more conducive to an out door garden. Not much for work? They come to Alberta for more money and leave. 4 to six months a year max. Always smiling.
No. I don't take this to seriously. Thanks.

In closing I quote the band called the Doobie Brothers to remind us as we look back at the progress we made, that some times, "what were once vices are now bad habits". And Big Bad Bob Clark when he said " keep a strain on boys".
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-18-2014 19:21
Well, I'm impressed.  Somebody around here uses the 'Search' function.  Or has a really good memory.  :lol:

A saying that I should even remind myself of more often.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-19-2014 09:09
Goodmorning Brent,
Memory and a lot of reading friend. At times not much sleep helps one to diminish, the other to increase.
Good words can be hard to find. I find when I remember them, life gets easier. Something to fall back on for strength, support,change and growth.
You and the others...good stuff.
Regards.
Parent - - By PlasmaHead2 (***) Date 09-19-2014 02:06
The mantra of the Farm Code.... :lol::lol::lol:
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-19-2014 04:10
Now that's funny Clif!:smile::grin::lol::yell::twisted::yell::lol::yell::twisted::yell::lol::yell::twisted::roll::wink::cool:

Good to see you posting again as well my friend!:cool::cool::cool: Don't be such a stranger dude even though at times the term busy is just an understatement!:eek::surprised::grin::lol::yell::twisted::yell::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Plasma56 (**) Date 09-19-2014 08:21
Bender rules!
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 19:34
John! Nice of you to join us pal! "How U Doin?" Where have you been hiding as of late? How's everybody doing by your way? I hope everything is as well as it could be for you these days...
Don't become a stranger okay? I want to see you post in here more often and I'm sure other folks in would like that also... Anywho, All the best to you and your family.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 19:40
Henry,
  Doing great buddy!! Back in Colorado and loving it!

jrw159
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 20:56
Glad to read this buddy!

Respectfully,
Henry
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-18-2014 18:34
I grew up on a farm and it is where I learned to strike an arc and melt thing so they stuck together. Notice I didn't say I learned to weld while on the farm.

We settled on the term "Farm Code" for good reason. Few of the welding practices I've seen on farms isn't based on science, it is based on "son of a *****, it held together this time."

Beast regards - Al
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 09-19-2014 18:17
The "Other" Red Code should read "The Welding Code for Dummies!" that should offend just about everyone.
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 09-19-2014 18:21
The "Other" Red Code should read "The Welding Code for Dummies!" that should offend just about everyone. If not, one of the "dumber" posters on this forum should provide such material as to be more inclusive.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-19-2014 19:14 Edited 09-19-2014 19:16
"Preheat is only required when someone who can make trouble is watching"

"Electrodes that have been wet can be "sun dried" prior to use."

Is the answer to the question posted here

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=33839
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 09-22-2014 04:59 Edited 09-22-2014 05:07
Play "Twilight Zone" theme and picture if you would Rod Serling stepping around the corner of the barn with a half burned cigarette...
Here's my latest efforts at meeting the minimal requirement of Farm Code weld integrity here at MooseBelchGulch, Wyoming.
If anyone wonders why I retired my hood from "professional" welding, well look no further and try not to spew your beverage through nostrils...
We shall see if it survives the trip to NoDak next weekend.
Attachment: FarmCodeWeldresized.JPG (580k)
Parent - - By lo-hi (**) Date 09-22-2014 10:23
The wire brushing does ad a touch of professionalism, and a coat would make it factory made.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 09-22-2014 17:11
It's my exhaust system. Any coatings would;
A) burn off and
B) might seep hydrocarbons though the porosity into the Oxygen sensors and foul them.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-24-2014 22:05
A "signature" weld to be sure sir :)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / The term Farm Code

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