UUMM, now that's an interesting question.
Let's see, you can 'inspect all welds' (my way of saying "all welds shall pass visual inspection") without being on the site 'continuous'. But in my mind, '100%' and 'continuous' are synonymous. Why? Because 100% means I have to watch the work in progress to see interpass temps and cleaning, fit up prior to welding, etc on every weld. Can't do that 100% without being on the job 'Continuously', In My Opinion.
Now, IBC defines Continuous and Periodic and makes the two clear as to 'THEIR' intentions.
Continuous: Special inspection by the special inspector who is present when and where the work to be inspected is being performed.
Periodic: Special inspection by the special inspection who is intermittently present where the work to be inspected has been or is being performed.
Once again though it comes down to a defining of terms and code entity intentions. Usually those intentions can be easily interpreted from the codes themselves, especially in D1.8 in conjunction with AISC Seismic Design Manual which gives clear Tables describing how inspections are to take place before, during and after work.
Many times these terms can be defined by the engineer within the Job Specifications when they detail how they want the inspections on their job performed.
A pet peeve, I believe of both you and I though I know we both stumble on occasion, is the usage of the correct terminology for the applicable code and job. Engineers, inspectors, and the Job Specifications all need to be of an understanding in the usage of the terminology that describes what they want done. Depending upon what was intended, from the three phrases you posted, the Job Specs need to ask for Continuous inspections as I would be inclined to think that even the all welds phrase was intended to mean that they wanted continuous. But, unless one asks, one never knows.
Now, I need to go back and see what I said, I replied to this without getting the context. Only the immediate question. Often a mistake. Let's see how much of my foot, and leg, I just stuck down my throat.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, Brent
So, the OP asked about 100%, not 'continuous' vs 'periodic'.
We really need to clarify that first and also find out how it was expressed to him as that may just be his way of describing what the inspector or city official said.
Now it's anybody's guess as to what is being requested.
Brent
It all seems so simple, until you read the fine print.
D1.1 puts the responsibility for quality control on the contractor, i.e., contractor's quality control and the contractor's inspector.
Per D1.1, the verification inspection is performed at the prerogative of the Owner. The Owner can require the contractor to take on the responsibility for verification inspection.
The building code may have specific requirements regarding the extent of verification inspection.
As you noted per D1.1, it is the Engineer's responsibility to define exactly what the extent of Verification Inspection is and what specifically is included.
Ahh, it is so simple until you read the fine print.
Best regards - Al
I agree completely. And therein lies a great deal of confusion as well. Just because the QC is done on a particular joint or whole project 100% and/or continuously does not mean that the Verification or QA must be.
I hate to drum on newbies but way too many new CWI's don't understand the different job descriptions and even who is paying them. Then move into the Job Specifications and make sure you are looking in the correct section because most have a portion detailing what the fabricator QC is supposed to do then, usually, toward the end of the specs a section detailing what the QA inspector is supposed to do and how often.
Many of the projects I have been involved with, our QA responsibilities included doing all of the NDT. So we covered MT and UT. But, was it inspected prior to the performance of NDT? We tried to train in house QC that they were to look at it and then call us. Not have the production lead call us when the welder finished the job. But, often I went out with the NDT tech and looked it over for any obvious repairs.
It does indeed usually come down to the Job Specifications and any fine tuning of them in the Contract Documents with final agreements between the Owner, Engineer, Fabricator, and QA company as to who does what, when, and how. Many times ends up being quite a modification to a PURE Code application of who should do what and when it should be done.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
That’s a good point. I always look at the welds before I call someone to come out to UT. If the welds can’t pass visual acceptance criteria, there’s no point in calling someone to UT the joints until they do.
This has nothing to do with D1.3, but I thought it was relative. Regardless of AWS code requirements, if AISC criteria is invoked on a project, Section N Quality Control and Quality Assurance, which is in the AISC Specification for Structural Steel Buildings, has three tables regarding welding inspection. The first one is for inspection tasks prior to welding, the second is for inspection tasks during welding, and the third is for inspection tasks after welding. These are minimum AISC requirements. Within each table, there’s a column that indicates applicable Quality Control responsibilities, and a column that indicates Quality Assurance responsibilities. Within these columns, there’s either an O or a P. An O indicates the item/task is to be observed on a random basis, and a P indicates the item/task is to be performed for each welded joint or member.
When that is put together in context and you notice that on some items the QC is to perform and the QA is to observe. Then, there are those items that QA definitely must perform, ACCORDING TO AISC as you mentioned. Even that can be modified depending upon how the engineer writes up the specs and in the case of seismic jobs and especially LA jobs you get D1.8 Clause 7 and especially (I must like that word) 7.1 and 7.3 invoked which states that the inspection agency must have and submit a 'Quality Assurance Agency Written Practice' which states their procedures and what they are going to do and when and how they are going to do it and who will be doing it according to qualifications/certifications (this is also in the AISC Seismic Design Manual in more detail than in D1.8). <was that a run on sentence or what>
IBC and the City of LA are also fond of 'Statement of Special Inspections'. Thankfully that is put together by the engineer but we have to read it and know it for the job at hand. And for any one involved in work doing inspections, note that the IBC 2012 is replacing the 2006 and there are some definite differences between the two in Chapter 17 as well as others concerning our work. I still go through both together often to make sure I get my head around the new one understanding how it differs from the old edition.
And yes, this does relate back to D1.3 because work there is also covered in IBC and you must take all the applicable codes into account when determining if something is Continuous or Periodic and if there is a percentage of work that is to be handled a certain way.
Example: right now we are required to do 10% MT on fillet welds, 40% on PJP, and 100% on CJP's. Some jobs will say 100% VT and 25% actually measured welds for size and discontinuity documentation. So, to answer the OP and Al, yes, there is a difference between 100%, Continuous, and all welds shall be visually inspected. Correct terminology needs to be used consistently and job descriptions need to be clearly stated in the Contract documents.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
AWS D1.3 may be referenced and addressed in the IBC Code, but it's not referenced in Chapter N. That's why I said it has nothing to do with D1.3 in that regard. As far as I know, the AISC recognizes the D1.1 and D1.8 codes, which are the applicable codes for AISC criteria.
Haha! This is probably something that I need to get clarified! In my vast experience of being a working CWI for the last 4 or so months, I've never actually seen the D1.3 code specified. I inspected a school a couple months ago that was IBC/D1.1/AISC and I asked the ironworkers to weld the floor deck to beams using low hydrogen rods per D1.3. The foreman had never encountered that before, but he was eager to comply. The welders weren't very happy with me when they had to put away their 6022's.....one of them came extremely close to cursing me out over it.
Back in the '70s when I was an IronHead, we used 6010 for decking to joists. How I miss the smell of burning zinc in the morning...
4 years ago though we used 7018 on a WongMart SuperCenter expansion.
Can you show us that from D1.3? That's the applicable code for welding down decking.
Before I form an answer...upon what is that based?
And, where is your authority to tell them what to use?
Did they have a WPS for 6022? Were their welders D1.3 qualified for puddle welds?
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
My question is more or less where does D1.3 come into play?
D1.3 1.4.4.2 deals with primary stuctural members that are >1/4".
Did they have a WPS for 6022? No.
Were their welders D1.3 qualified for puddle welds? No.
As for my authority to tell them which electrode to use, I guess that is my question since I've never actually seen D1.3 called out in the specs. I know when I was welding decking for a living I had inspectors enforce the low hydrogen rule for thicker than 1/4" structural members.
Okay, now we have somewhere to go.
So, when you get to the job, the first thing you do is check out the General Structural Notes. Top left corner should be all applicable codes listed somewhere, but not always.
Then, as you look down through, it should have both 'Structural Welding' and a title having to do with 'Decking', 'Sheet Steel', etc that applies to your D1.3 steels. That is the section that will tell you the electrodes that are to be used, the qualifications for welders, and all expectations of the engineer/customer.
I gotta go for now, I'll have to come back to this. Sorry.
Brent
A little more before I have to get to my job.
The General Notes will take you different directions, but, D1.3 can almost always be said to be the applicable code for anything on a job under 1/8" in thickness.
The code then, as in D1.1, tells you they need a WPS and welder quals. There are limited prequalified WPS's in D1.3. The welder qual becomes your PQR on many of the applications.
Now, some notes call for ALL welding on the structural steel to be done with low hydrogen electrodes. You either need an RFI to clarify or use 7018. But, most of the time the notes or job specs book state that 6022 is the electrode for your puddle welds even to structural members but especially to angle iron ledgers, joists and girders.
Now, "D1.3 1.4.4.2 deals with primary stuctural members that are >1/4"." No, it deals with members < 3/16". You used 'greater than'. D1.3 is for material less than '<' 3/16" while D1.1 is for material greater than '>' 1/8". They do have an overlap but it is seldom an issue.
I believe where you are going is that the structural is still D1.1 while the decking is D1.3. Personally, I believe this is why some engineers will approve D1.1 qualifications for the welders, which is their prerogative, and the notes for the sheet steel only say that the welders need be 'experienced' in decking puddle welds.
It is not an easy question you ask. It is dependent upon the engineer and how they call out the specs in the General Notes and the Job Specifications. And, even if you don't find it there, they can clarify through the RFI.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
What do you make of this video, specifically starting around 20:35? I have seen this enforced multiple times in the real world. I was pretty unsure exactly why we were having to use low hydrogen rods until this guy explained it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aRiZfuSiGI
I asked the ironworkers to weld the floor deck to beams using low hydrogen rods per D1.3.
there is a clause in d1.1 where if you are welding on class 50 metal then all welding will be done with low hydrogen rods. I have seen this many time usually in school gym trusses, so roof decking would require low hydrogen rods.
Yeah D1.3 throws a curve ball at you...every ga thickness and then every type of coating gets re-qualified.....and any combination of those adds to the list of WPSs to qualify for.
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