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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Guset Welds
- - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 08-24-2015 21:33
Hello Everyone,

Have a 2-3 year project coming up at year end and looking for some help with this one. We are welding qty 8 gussets to a 10' angle and looking for ways to speed up production without going to robotics. Very high qtys but not enough to fully automate at this point. This job comes around every couple years. The process is GMAW, ER70S-6 wire .035.
Are there dual head MIG guns out there or would a mechanized system similar to Bug-O work for fillets.
In the past we fixtured off of holes in angle tack and finish weld (manual basic stuff) can't keep up with production unless we hire a boatload of welders.
See attached photo.

Your help is appreciated.
Attachment: sideview.pdf (19k)
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 08-25-2015 10:54
Hey Jarhead,
Really, there's not much welding to be done.  I don't see a lot of saving by just speeding up the weld process (unless you have a boatload of them to do).  Most of your up time is spent with preparation.

That said, I suggest getting a fixture that locates and clamps the gussets in place.  Tack 'em up, and weld 'em.

If you have a boatload, the easiest thing to try is cranking your parameters way up to increase deposition rates. Or higher deposition rate electrode as Dulie suggested.

Whatever you do must be qualified/validated (if following a code).

Tyrone
Parent - - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 08-25-2015 18:25
Production numbers could go up to 1000 pcs x 8 gussets per/wk. Approx. 8 1/2 min per angle tack/weld/clean.

Also weld will be in one piece flow cell.

Parts weigh around 85lbs each. Faster deposition would help a little. I was thinking flux core as well$$

- Jarhead
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-25-2015 20:55
Deposition rates are your smallest issue.

.045 or .052 can both make 1/4" fillet welds at about 18-20 inches per minute and 12.5 to 13 pounds per hour.   FCAW will not touch those rates unless you are welding out of position... Which is not conducive to speed.

What you need to do is stand back and see what the welders are doing when they are not welding.. This is where you will find your time.

Staging your *kits* and getting your parts fit-up with pace is where you are going to reduce the number of cells required to make your target.
Parent - - By kcd616 (***) Date 08-26-2015 00:09
Lawrence,
being Kent I keep things simple:wink:
what always improves production welding is fixtures
make some fixtures for this and watch production improve greatly
make everything idiot proof
copper stops, the whole 9 yards
recurring job it makes sense
sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 08-26-2015 18:02
Ok - Your thoughts > 1. Weld fixture that will locate all 8 gussets tack all 8 in fixture flip gusset locate fixture up and out of way, (angle still in fixture) finish weld in same fixture same welder.
2. or move part on roller table to welder #2 to finish weld, which is more efficient.

I'm thinking #1 less handling? Thoughts.?.

Thanks my friends..
Jarhead
Parent - By dick (**) Date 08-26-2015 02:11 Edited 08-26-2015 08:10
I agree with Lawrence, it takes x amount of time to lay down 2" welds. How are you getting these 85lb angles in and out of the area and then on and off table. Might be as much time spent material handling, as weld time if not more. Maybe a rail system/ roller system with person running jib, put angle on track, push to tacker with your fixtures and slide angle down to welder then slide to person with scrapper in hand to C/U and stack part. I would be curious how many a couple welders and 1 or 2 utility personal could get done in a day, sounds like a fun project to me. A long time ago I welded doors on a line similiar to this.
Do time study to adjust areas accordingly.
This might work?
Dick
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 08-26-2015 18:48
Material handling is your alligator eating into the time.
1) can full length sections be welded and holes punched Prior to cutting to length?
2) Have you considered a "Piece Rate Bonus" for the weld out? A union shop would probably not allow this.

I remember one shop where us welders had a "race" on a similar configuration. Just something fun to do to break the monotony of the doldrums of mass production.
A co-welder friend had taken a cut in pay to come to the maintenance department. He had been a Dragline Operator in the mine, which was top of the pay scale there. I asked him once how he could sit there hour after hour, year after year making the same 180° repetitive cycle scooping up dirt here and dumping it over yonder. His response was "You have to make a game of it in your mind".
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 08-27-2015 02:57
So right.  And in welding it really applies to every weld.  It isn't the part.  In truth, it is just welding.  Every bead is just another bead.  But, if you look at every weld with: how can I do the next one better and faster, then it is your own head game.  Compete with yourself for perfection.  No wasted motion, time, just perfect welds at the best possible rate.  I have seen it pay off, got raises when others couldn't.  Never mattered to me what others did, what can I do better.  When you start surpassing all the others the bosses don't care if you slack once in a while.  But if you make it a habit you are just like all the rest, average joe blow just here for a weekly paycheck.

Brent
Parent - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 08-27-2015 12:17
Brent Thanks I think you nailed it!
- - By Dualie (***) Date 08-25-2015 03:48
move to a higher deposition electrode would be a start.
Parent - - By mwmw (**) Date 08-25-2015 15:53
I agree . I would definitely go up to .045 wire in gmaw or fcaw
Parent - By Stringer (***) Date 08-26-2015 03:06
Hire a boatload of welders!:grin:
Parent - - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 08-27-2015 20:02
I was thinking of trying a Metal-Cored Wire. Any thoughts?
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 08-27-2015 20:29 Edited 08-28-2015 12:52
You could get a great deposition rate with metal core, and have less cleanup time than with flux-core.
I would go with 1/16" ER70S-6 solid wire to get damn near the same deposition as MC, but with less fume.
How are you set for fume extraction?
Will your weld equipment handle 450 amps at least 60% duty cycle?
Does your fixture plans include being able to put all welds in the flat position?
Need to plan for crater fill to prevent cracking.

edit - Forgot to mention that you probably need to pre-bow the part in a fixture to help combat distortion.

Tim
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 08-28-2015 19:59
Tim's edit is spot on
control distortion
sincerely,
Kent
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Guset Welds

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