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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / GMAW Short Circuit with 98%AR/2%Oxy ??
- - By SeeJeepGo (*) Date 12-04-2018 16:25
Background:
I'm in the process of adding to our in-house WPS's by adding some Spray Transfer procedures for when we have some thicker material in the mix. Mostly we deal with gauge tubing 16,14,11, some 7 and usually 1/4" plate or 1/4" angle tabs etc. so GMAW short circuit with 70s-6 .035" and 75/25 is the norm. We have processes for FCAW -g when dealing with thicker plates and heavier structural and that's fine, but switching over the machines (wire rollers, and tips and wand/liner if going up to 1/16" etc ) can be a pain and a time suck. we try to leave one set up but that doesn't always work out. its inevitable that when were busy and short on machines someone else will need whatever and switch it back. Plus now you have slag to deal with and cleaning welds and issues with inclusions if its multi pass etc... SO (re)enter SPRAY TRANSFER which talking with the floor guys they used to do more of but for whatever reason, don't now. There was an old bottle of 98/2 oxy in the rack so i pulled it out and hooked it to an XMT w a feeder. I started on straight CV and got it running nice. smooth, slick, even, clean and sexy looking fillet welds with great penetration and macroetch and break results on 1/2" and 3/8" plates and doing some larger radius flare bevels like the edges of square tube was nice too. I was happy.
So now i wanted to try 85/15 (C15) and 90/10 (C10) so i could hopefully find a single gas that could work for both our needs. that way someone welding short circuit on some gauge tubing could easily do some heavy plate quickly w a simple setting change.
I grabbed some scrap 14ga tube cutoffs and did some nice vertical fillets without much hassle. When i adjusted settings up to spray I was not as happy with my results. Sure I could make it work, but i felt like the 98/2 as soooo much easier and more forgiving. I was getting more spatter and didn't have the same fluidity and control. I'm trying to make it easier for anyone to transition into spray, not make it more of a challenge.

Background info over... So i thought why not go the other route, can i use the 98/2 oxy to short circuit? I tried it on some 14ga with a 17v/200wfs starting point and it seemed ok.  some 11ga tube worked too but the weld profile was hard to get flat. high middle and the toe edges seemed almost like cutting in. I lowered the V and it helped but wasnt confident in it.
I spent a bunch of time reading on here and other forums and of course weldreality.com.  and i thought it was time to initiate a new post to ask for feedback. Most of the discussion regarding 98/2 is for spray mild steel and stainless, which is understandable but what is everyones thoughts and or experiences using it for short circuit. Will is achieve my goals, or am i opening up another can of worms for potential problems. Thanks in advance.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-04-2018 17:15
Good questions

If your wallet is fat...  GMAWP with 90/10  Ar/CO2     This might get you all positions at low currents and great spray in flat and horizontal.

I also think if you spend a little more time with your Ar/CO2 you will find that spatter free spray transfer welds are perfectly easy to produce.   The higher the CO2 (less than 80%) the better it will be for your short circuiting and FCAW.

A lot depends on workload eh?    The pain of a job shop.

As far as I'm concerned, for spray GMAW  "fluidity & control"  are opposites.  

Fluidity in Spray GMAW = a wide wet puddle that is hard to control.   This is very common with O2 mixes

Control in Spray GMAW = a short spray arc that keeps the puddle round and lowers undercut and overlap potential in horizontal fillets.    Ar/C02 mixes help with this.

O2 mixes allow for achieving spray transfer at slightly lower voltages, which is beneficial for thin materials... The other edge of the sword is that at high currents the weld pool is not as easy for the operator to handle.

Co2 mixes for Spray Transfer also have a much more favorable penetration profile for most applications,,, The O2 profiles are more finger shaped and increase the opportunity to miss fusion at the root on fillets if the operator is a little sloppy with gun angle.

Just some thoughts to help get the conversation moving.
Parent - - By SeeJeepGo (*) Date 12-04-2018 17:31
Yes thank you Lawrence. I planned to try one of the mixes on the 350P and see how it works. I also have an older Optima ii pendant that I can try w the xmt. I've heard mixed feeling on both those options but want to try for myself.
Right now workload is light which is why I have time to test these options.

I did notice more 9f the finger profile in the macroetch. I dont think it's a problem but I understand the concern you mentioned. I'll post pics some pics soon.

Tha ks for the inpit.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 12-04-2018 19:43
I've found the 90/10 to be a good all-around GMAW gas mix.
I haven't tried it with FCAW, but it does work well with MCAW.
I'm a big fan of GMAW-Pulse with 90/10 for both thick and thin materials.
Keep in mind that when Argon content goes up, so does price.
Gas content changes also affect penetration profiles, which is something to consider.
I did a quick internet search for an applicable picture to show the difference, and you'll never guess who's info popped up...  :)

https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=33487

Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-05-2018 04:36
Ha yes!

Where is Tyrone anyhow?
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 12-07-2018 12:48
Hey Larry,
Still alive and kicking.
Can't believe Tim dug out that old thread from the internet (alarming?).
Glad a few of us are still keeping this Forum chugging along.

Tyrone
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 12-07-2018 13:38
Not a comment regarding the original post but felt i needed to comment. I am also glad y'all are here on this forum and keeping it alive. For us newbies in the industry it sure has helped a lot along with all its archives. Sometimes I will look something up and just get carried away with reading everything trying to soak up the knowledge and looking up the examples you all place and describe to get a better understanding. I hope I am not the only one that is taking all of the information you all are providing, that by no means do you all have to do. I hope I can speak for all the newbies that have come in here and all the future newbies and say Thank you all for providing this knowledge we really do appreciate all the comments and knowledge that y'all provided.
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 12-10-2018 13:03
LToca,
You just validated our reason for being here!

Cheers
Tyrone
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-10-2018 14:32
Exactly! :cool:
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 12-07-2018 18:02
That popped up from a google image search...
It seems like 9 times out of 10 when i do a google search for a weld topic, one of the top 5 related results comes from this forum archive.

Tim
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / GMAW Short Circuit with 98%AR/2%Oxy ??

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