Do You Think Lincoln will make a rigwelder worthy vantage

Date 05-07-2008 05:57 Edited 05-07-2008 07:16

Just can't have one tool that does it all!
When I was a custom knifemaker, I always had to hear the "story" about Grandad's knife. He forged it himself as a kid from one of the tires he took off the Conestoga wagon and a meteorite he found along the trail out West in the Dakota Teritory. One fine day with out being resharpened, he cleaned 12 buffalo, pryed open a Wells Fargo strongbox for Butch Cassidy, cut a dragline cable into foot long pieces and then he shaved with it before proposing marriage to my Grandma ! "Can you make me a blade like that, it was shaped just like this.........?"
To my knowledge, Lincoln has the only pure DC machine on the market. When it comes to stacking dimes with a 6010 or it's relatives, "THERE AINT NUTHIN FINER THAN A PIPELINER!!!" Slide in a #9 shade super green glass put on some rose tinted shades and enjoy the show!!!
If I were to rig up ever again, would just have to get an accessory generator for the fifthwheel or if Multi-processing then Miller or Lincoln both make xlnt little rigs with plenty of KW's AC and all the bells and whistles for the hi-freq aluminum, CV for GMAW short circuiting and power for the trailer. Just let the SA200 earn the paychecks like it was meant to do and does so well.
Lincoln makes the greatest pipeliner's welding machine ever! I could nor would ask no more of them. End of story
Just like that Law of Thermo-dynamics....no free lunch!
My opinions of course.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 05-07-2008 11:21

Seems like something is wrong with your Vantage. I have a Vantage 300 and I weld X-ray every day without problems, I think it is the best machine Lincoln has on the market.
But, thats only my opinion.

By fbrieden (***)

Date 05-07-2008 12:23

I didn't know Lincoln made a good welder.

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 05-07-2008 13:17

Ouch. fdrieden that's cold!

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 05-07-2008 21:11

I guess when someone else, Like a school,(Temple University) is footing the bill you learn to use what they pay for. So, I can see where your use of machines in the field is limited.

By fbrieden (***)

Date 05-09-2008 16:29

Used them all: Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Linde, Airco, P&H and Air Products. I don't think my use of machines in the field is limited.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 05-10-2008 20:31

WOW! You are the welding God ! Some of those must have been prototypes that you tested for the factories ! I wasnt aware that all of those companies even made engine driven machines. I made be wrong but Ive only been welding since 1980 and I dont recall ever seeing a Linde, P&H or an Airco on a Rig Truck Excuse me.

By fbrieden (***)

Date 05-12-2008 02:53

The original quote (from stanantonio) was: " I belive it's true any good welder can make a decent weld with any machine". That covers the machines I mentioned, be they stationary or mobile. My response was not targeted to "Rig Trucks", as you imply.

With due respect, I don't profess to be "a welding God" as you infer. That title belongs to two of my friends, Paul and Mark.

I have been welding since 1973, so your comments tell me you're still "wet behind the ears".

In your future postings, I'm sure ALL of us would like it if you spelled properly, and checked your punctuation!

You're excused!

By cmays

Date 05-08-2008 02:46

HAHA and here we go.........

By Sourdough (****)

Date 05-10-2008 18:33

And I wasn't even involved in this one

By JescoPressure (**)

Date 05-07-2008 20:40

ive never had a problem with any of my chopper machines they welded everything including downhand pipe just fine

By JHarlos (**)

Date 05-08-2008 01:13

have to agree about the vantages.....they just look good.....untill your helper sprays it with sparks, might have something to do with it being about their cheapest big machine.

By Tom11980 (*)

Date 05-08-2008 01:52

I have the vanage 300 and I weld 100% x-ray I have to agree it is one of the best machines I have run.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-08-2008 03:06

The COULD take the rout Miller did with the current Trailblazer line and use a completely different set of windings for Aux power, but it would have to run 1800 RPM to give 60 HZ.

How do the SA250 and Clasic II perform in pipe welding? If You can filter rectified DC well enough for audio work, they should be able to make it good enough for field excitation on a welder.

By 1mancrew (**)

Date 05-08-2008 18:58

I know I'm talking with a bunch of Lincoln guys here. That's fine. They've certainly made a lot of great machines over the years. Heck, I own one of them! '54 shorthood. Best pipe machine I have ever used! That having been said I would just like to recommend that some of you guys at least try the Miller Pro 300. I've been using mine to weld pipe in a gas plant here in the area and have shot a 100% X-ray so I know it can do the work. Its a great all-around machine that is incredibly good on fuel. Just my $1.00s worth. ($.02 adjusted for inflation!)

GH Weidman

By RioCampo (***)

Date 05-09-2008 01:10

just put a pro 300 on my rig today.

By stanantonio Date 05-09-2008 02:14

thats very true Dave. I thought about trying to find a way to put a bigger alternator on my 200 D and sending in to a 5000watt power inverter

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-09-2008 02:36

Back in the '50s when most DC engine drive welders had only 1-3 KW of DC aux power Hobart offered a 300 amp machine with 6 or 12 KW AC aux power. From the pictures it looks like an alternator was mounted between the engine and the welding generator.

You can buy a 2.5 or 5 KW unit that incorporates a specificly built alternator and an inverter that will put out 60 HZ 125 VAC regardles of RPM. It will need 2 HP per KW, so the belt drive needs to be up to it. For full output the alternator will need to turn at least 6K RPM, so the engine pulley will be a large custom setup.

To use a large 12 volt alternator to power a 5 KW inverter, You will need a serious battery bank, as 5KW will draw 500 amps @ 12 volts.

By stanantonio Date 05-09-2008 03:08

Dave I kind of understand what your saying. I not the greatest at electrical. Can you explain to me in little more detail about the incorporated unit. As for the battery part of the second option I dont quite understand why I would need a big battery back up. As far as I kind of understand is that an alternater adjust the the amount of amperage as it is drawn from it. I would think (yet as I said I am not very good at electrical) that I should be able to get some 200amp or 300amp alternator and by pass the battery and send it directly to an inverter with out draging the engine down while simutaniusly being able to weld under most instances. IE 3 gear on the welding amperage selection on the 200d

Futher more maybe you can tell me if I can also some how change that power from single phase to 2ph or 3ph

By mooseye (**)

Date 05-09-2008 03:50

2ph? Thats a new kind ain't it?

By stanantonio Date 05-09-2008 03:11

do you have a site for this unit you are talking about? Thanks Dave for the info

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-09-2008 04:26

The combination I refered to was marketed to the marine trade about 15 years ago, I am kind of out of that now, so I have no up to date info. My Bro In Law is using a similar unit on a satelite broadcast truck, I can eMail Him for information.

If You draw 5 KW from a 12 volt inverter, it will take all of 500 amps, take My word for that. A 200 amp alternator, and I would suggest a Leece Nevile brand is pretty big, and it will need a deticated 2 belt pulley 12" in diameter on the engine to give the required rotor speed.

The rather large battery bank is to make up the other 300 amps when You actually draw the full 5 KW.

   If You are only running 1/8 or perhaps 5/32 rods You would probably have enough engine power to operate the alternator at full output.

   A cheaper solution would be to belt drive a shaft driven 120/240 volt alternator with the proper belt ratio to give 60 HZ at weld speed. This will still require 2 HP off the engine for each KW of output.

   2 phase isn't new, it is obsolete. It was in common use about 100 years ago.

   3 phase is a posibility, You can get inverters and shaft driven generators for it, just be sure You actually NEED it.

By vantage500man (**)

Date 05-09-2008 11:28

We run two grinders a plasma machine an air compressor to run the plasma and in pic shown I was air arcing at 325 amps so this machine is a beast with no problems what so ever and have past xray on my 3 and 4 g test

Attachment: DSCF0016.JPG (314k)

By mooseye (**)

Date 05-09-2008 14:45

Thats a nice looking trailer rig, but I am glad those are not my tool bags you are blasting with that rock.

By tnhnt

Date 05-09-2008 21:13

I'd rather weld with a broken down old Miller than I would with a brand new Lincoln.

By JHarlos (**)

Date 05-10-2008 04:02 Edited 05-10-2008 04:05

I run a 79 model sa 200 with a miller trail blazer 302 for a back up. And the 302 is great all the way around exept for a down hill cap, atleast I cant figure out how to run a good cap with it after running an sa 200. (But in response to the origanal post NO lincoln wont make a rig worthy vantage just my 2 cents though.)

By Stringer (***)

Date 05-12-2008 00:19

I tested a vantage 500 and a 220d side by side and preferred (slightly) the 220d for downhill. Seemed like it handled problem fits better. Neither machine shut off as smooth as the gas machines, but they weren't as thirsty either.

By JHarlos (**)

Date 05-12-2008 21:05

if I have to go to a 500......to compare with a 200, or 220 then there is no comparison.

By Stringer (***)

Date 05-13-2008 00:36

Yeah, my only hangup about the 200d (sorry about the earlier typo) is price. It's a 4 cylinder but golly it's expensive at $12,500 plus compared to other more versitile machines like a Miller pro 300 or something.

By RioCampo (***)

Date 05-13-2008 03:07

I have a Pro 300. Just getting used to it. It sure takes a little getting used to it vs my old sa200. I am beginning to like the way it performs. It does a great job on low/Hi. With 6010 you have to keep it really pushed into the arc more or you will have some hella***s wagon tracks and even a little pitting. You can't snuff it out though, or at least on mine, I can burn through schedule 80 before it will snuff out. Ran almost ten hours and still shows close to 3/4 tank of fuel.

By JHarlos (**)

Date 05-13-2008 03:13

i will have to agree...on the 2ood. My miller trail blazer is the same way, just not an sa 200. but then I have noy ran the pipe pro.

By 1mancrew (**)

Date 05-14-2008 01:06

Glad to hear you like it. I've had one for a couple of years now and love it.
I'm glad to see them catching on. Personaly, I like to run 6010 on the "C" setting. That gives me the best results so far. On thinner material I might back up to "B" mode. Seems to work well for me.

GH Weidman

By fbrieden (***)

Date 05-13-2008 04:44

Ditto!

By stanantonio Date 05-13-2008 06:32

I would have to agree with tidbits of everbodys perspecitve. I've used just about everything which is why I have a pretty good feel on exactly what I look for in a machine. Maybe I am just to picky with what a machine does. Millers upper end machines are not bad machines. I like the fact that you can long Arc them. Makes them great for 3/16ths puddle capping and two different windings one for welding and one for AC . Down side is the Miller you sometimes have to fight the bead/root. In fact I carry a Miller Maxstar 200 inverter with the pulse capibilities for my tig welding. (would'nt even consider a Lincoln.) Licoln 200d or sa 200 is an excelent welding machine. It makes welding easy when its fined tuned you can fine tune it some more. Down side is obviously the AC aspect but also you also have to carry a close arc, the more so when you drop OCV's. Also the fact you have to drag the rod a pinch longer on your starts or stick the rod just a pinch then strike it off. As for the Vantage yeah all the AC stuff is nice But the rehostat is to touchy. On CC stick you can go from blowing and going to cold in just a 1/8th of a turn on the rehostat is kind of annoying. (But I like the hot start.) As for down hill you can't carry as much metal. Since I own two rig trucks and have a 200d on one and the Vantage on the other. I get the pleasure of comparing them side by side. Just recently I was welding with some 1/4 jet rod. The 200d did just fine. The vantage which should in thereoy should push 400A as stated on the machine. Would'nt hold an arc with that diameter of rod. I have also welded and compared X - Ray film up hill and down hill under various conditions and I have found that with the same rod under same conditions that welding with a Vantage, Pipepro and a 200d that the Vantage and the Pipepro tended to have more defects in the X ray shots.(I test drove all three at the same time just not to long ago before I bought two new machines.) ( I have a darn good welding salesman.) So you might ask why I bought one 200d and a Vantage? The reason is both my trucks go to the same job 99% of the time. I,ve got a great welding machine when I need and I have a decent welding machine with all the ac power for what I ever may cross my path. So I guess I will be a happy camper when Lincoln or Miller make a machine with super finetunning, throw in long arc capabilites and all the ac power I can throw at without taking away from the welding amps and sell it all for about 800 dollars. Yep that will make me a happy welder.

By JescoPressure (**)

Date 05-13-2008 20:50

i got a 3 turn pot for my vantage / 305g remote because it was to touchy now each turn is worth a 100 amps and is almost the same effectiveness as a rheo on a sa200 but without the switching gears

By TRC

Date 05-13-2008 23:08

Don't know if yous caught any of my post a few months ago but I use Miller's finger tip control on my stinger. I tape it on my stinger so I can control it with my index finger as I'm welding. They have two models, I use the east/west model. My experience with the Trailblazer on beads has been very good. I haven't ran the Pro 300 but I assume it is at least as good as the T/B. I run my arc force on the the third setting toward stiff/ 6010. At this setting I find it one of the best bead setting I've run across. I also set it there because this is where it caps the smoothest with 6010 which is what my customer wants used on their X42.
I have also made the same remote for my Vantage 400 using the Miller housing. I had to do a lot of research to find the pot that was compatabile with Lincoln. Miller uses a 2 watt, 1K ohm pot and Lincoln uses a 2watt, 10K ohm pot. Anyhow, when you plug in the Miller remote you can set the max amps by turning back the main pot on the macine i.e. if you only wanted to max out at 200 amps you set the pot on the machine at 200 amp and that would be your max.. On the Lincoln you don't get that feature because when you plug in the remote it stays at 300 or 500 whether you select regular CC or Downhill, it doesn't change. So you get a very sensitive adjustment on the Lincoln, but I don't find it a problem using the finger tip control because I can adust as I'm welding.
Stan, have you though of running another machine off of your Vantage to save fuel cost. You can run an inverter at 200 amps and still run 200 amps off your Vantage. Ted

By stanantonio Date 05-14-2008 01:53

I carry a maxstar 150 inverter on one truck and a maxstar 200 on the other. But even the 200A inverter wont carry The kind of heat you need for any thing above 2inch pipe(I cap with a 5/32 on 3inch DH) They work great for stainless and that is what I like them for. Other wise they would just slow me down in carbon pipe. But I have thought about that very question. Not so much as far as fuel goes. But How I could get more money out of one truck and elminate the other all together. That would save me about 30k a year(Equip, fuel, tires, insurance, ect). I thought about Rigging out one truck with a Miller dual operater welding machine and still charge close to what I charge for two trucks. Yeha I know sounds pretty funny. Can you imagaine the kind of looks I would get trying to hire in on some pipeline.(Or maybe I just started the wheels turning in some rig welders head?) As for the rehostat that a pretty darn good idea. I might just look into that. My idea was some thing a little similar but alot simpler. Which was to take internal gut of the vantage rehostat and put them in a bigger housing. Then make a sticker with the numbers on it excecpt with them going from 1 to 100. Make the sticker about 3inch in diameter and last but not least add a larger dial. That would give you a little more control. I even thought if I was to go that far. Then I might as well get 100ft cable with 7 wires in it. 4 for your rehostat and the for your AC power. Wire it all up and now you drag one cable for your rehostat and your ac.

By TRC

Date 05-14-2008 21:21 Edited 05-14-2008 21:48

The pot for the Lincoln is Vishay part # P11VYN available from Newark Electronic Supply

By rig welder6 (**)

Date 05-23-2008 22:34

that is what a miller remote is i have one and love it w/my pro 300

By fordsux8269 (**)

Date 05-24-2008 02:23

What about getting a 300d is it just as good as a 200d. But is has ac 110 power

By Jim Beck 2 Date 05-25-2008 01:07

I would like to hear everyones opinion on the 300D also. Thinking about getting one to replace a 300G which has been nothing but trouble.

By stewartfan20 (*)

Date 05-25-2008 15:21

i weld everyday with a vantage 300 best welding macine i have ever ran, and yes everything is 100% x-ray it stringers like no other and fuel economy is outstanding, i have also compared film with a 300g and a sa-200 (1104 and 31.3) in my company and the vantage smokes them all, and there are a lot of guys im my area are using them too

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 05-25-2008 17:51

I still love my my Vantage and I still think Lincoln should stop making all other machines ! The Vantage can handle it all !

By okwelder82 (***)

Date 08-04-2009 00:03

When you say that Lincoln should stop making all other machines what does the vantage do so much better that other machines such as the 300D dont do?

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 08-04-2009 00:21

Just my opinion

By rick harnish (***)

Date 08-04-2009 00:35

Wow! Here is an old fight! Lets start over!!

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 08-04-2009 00:46

I am tired of the BS and this Snotnose, Wet Behind the Ear Kid !

By okwelder82 (***)

Date 08-04-2009 01:01 Edited 08-04-2009 01:04

I understand it is your opinon, i was really wondering what about the Vantage made you form that opinion. You always talk about how it is the greatest welder ever made but I have never seen you write anything about what makes it so great. I thought this was supposed to be an informative forum and people come here to learn about machines and all things welding related. Is a welder just breaking into the industry supposed to go buy a Vantage machine just because Cactus said it is the best thing since sliced bread? Also, is anyone who argues with you about anything a young "snotnosed" kid that doesnt have any idea what he is talking about? You have made it clear that you have been welding for a million years but when I asked this question I was asking it with honest intentions.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 08-04-2009 01:32 Edited 08-04-2009 12:56

If you were truly asking for the info , then I apoligize. You have to admit, EVERY other time you have posted ANYTHING that I saw or in response to something I wrote it was to stir up sh*t. Now to explain the Vantage. IN MY OPINION, It welds better than any machine I have run. In 30 years I have welded with a few of them. It produces more AC power than most stand alone portable generators. It will run a chop saw AND a grinder WHILE WELDING. This ,to me, Is a pretty handy feature. I can run either a high Power Fan in the summer or a High power Heater in the Winter. WHILE WELDING. Your machine has a 3000 watt generator which Bogs while welding. Mine has a 25,000 watt generator to do what I want when I want. It has Inverter Chopper Technology. Whether you beleive this or not I will tell you that it will weld further and faster with most rods. The only way to prove this is to weld next to one. Run a Vertical 7018 Uphill The guy with the Vantage will win every time. Miller Pipe pros and Miller Pro 300's also have this feature and perform the same. If you took a test like the Old Pepsi taste test. Where you would hide the machine and judge it by the way it welds. I am convinced that MOST Welders (not all) would choose the Vantage. It does have PC boards,(so does the 300D)Which most oldschool welders dont like and Pipeliners swear it makes them weld bad. What amazes me is this, An Old School Pieliner will try a Miller Pipe Pro or a Pro 300 before a Vantage. Then Swear it welds Better. The Biggest difference in the 2 is the RPM's they run. You hear of welders Takeing their Machine to have the OCV's adjusted. I can do that on mine with a Dial. I have an Arc Gougeing Mode, and a CV/CC Mode if I chose to run Wire, A tig mode, a downhill pipe mode and a stick mode. I also have a Perkins Turbo in Mine. Look up on the Lincoln Website and do a Comparison of the Vantge 300 and the 300d. I think you will be suprised at how similar they really are. Regardless to what you hear the Vantage WILL weld Pipe. There is a You Tube Video of the 798 Slick Rig Contest. Watch it. You will be Truly Amazed at the 798 hands who own and run Vantage welders. I sold my Vantage 400 to one of my Welders in Brady, He did X-ray welds with it day after day, and NEVER busted a shot.