I am looking for opinions. I have a job coming up that requires Wire Feeders in a remote location. Anyone have Suggestions on Feeders and wire (Flux-Cored). It has been a LONG time since I have used this stuff and I am sure there are new things on the market now. The welding being done will be on 72" pipe, 1/2 inch wall. 30 degree bevel with a backer strap. All welds will be made in a Horizontal postion. I am looking for the BEST Feeders with the least problems as well as wire. I used to use Hobart Fabsheild 21B. But, looking on Hobarts website it doesn't seem to be availible anymore.
I've heard good things about these wire feed systems from my buddy LINCOLN LN-25 WIRE FEEDER
Lincoln LN -25 suitcase is a good feeder . If you're running gas sheilded fluxcore Esab makes smooth running wire I think its 710XM, Lincoln makes a couple real good fluxcore wires, Ultra Core 71 is supposed to be the best but 71M welds just as good to me. All of these are all position wire.
I agree that dual shield wire is the way to go ...except for windy days....
All of the wire we use will be Flux Cored Self sheilding
I'm with Strother good luck on that self shielding wire the porosity and repair work will drive you crazy and the thrill of not haveing to hook up a gas bottle will soon be gone. I have heard people say that this is not so but have yet to see it myself.
You should be happy that you can't get Fabshield 21-B. I thought it was a terrible product. Much prefer Lincoln NR211. I have a couple of older Lincoln LN-25 wire feeders that I've used for years. Bought them used.
Will a LN-25 work on a SA-200 without any mods to the Machine ?
I think so but not so good out of position. You can run the LN 25 CC but Cv is the best. I ran mine CC for a long time on a 300D but eventually bought and installed a CV module. And I figured you'd go with flux core and no shielding gas for field work.
I think Lincoln recomends CV for critical welding with wirefeed.
The LN-25 wil work great on a Vantage.
I'm running a Vantage 400 now and the combination works great.
I know it will work great on the Vantage. My only concern is that some of my Guys run SA-200 and SA-300. Will the feeder work on those as well ? Or do they need a Module added before they will work ?
They will need a CV adapter.
CACTUS ,the LN 25 won't work on the sa 200 without the CV wirefeed module.Let me be more specific,I could not weld with either one of mine until I put the module in mine.(318)332-3441.
Miller S-32P
Where's that stupid delete button?
Actually they don't make them anymore.
Kidding aside I have used a couple of them (alot) and have no complaints. But no self respecting Lincoln man would hook up a blue feeder to his rig :)
As far as wire, I have never ran NS-3M horizontally but it is a great wire. Very easy slag removal and high deposition rates. I've welded tons on moment welds in the flat position and would weld more ends than my two competitors combined. My ad"Vantage"was the wire. Plus I worked harder.
I had great service with a Tweco 400 Amp Flux Core gun also.
A CV module is required if the machines don't have CV.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/consumabledatasheet.aspx?p=5809
LN-25 (with Lincoln Magnum gun) will run on a SA-200 with out the CV module. But it is highly advisable to have the CV option installed. The problem is...Stick-out length is very critical. Once you've found your settings, that stick-out distance MUST be maintained within a 1/32" OR LESS! This makes for a pain in the a$$ for the welders.
If you can, Lincoln NR-211 is probably the most user friendly Innershield (self shielded) wire ever made. It will weld through mud, dirt, grease, paint, rust, ice...many customers don't allow it due to poor Charpy values.
This is what I used in the Coal Mines and Oil Patch..
OK, Slightly off topic. Cactus, you have GUYS?? IM A GUY!!!
Hey Dwayne
We use the Miller Suitcase 12Rc for Training on Engine drives with self shielded electrodes... They guys knock it around and no problems yet.. Like it alot. Also it it is is a black composite case and the stickers can be quickly removed (no accident methinks)
If you are leaning toward Lincoln self shielded electrodes keep in mind the thickness limitations of NR211 and NR212... Even with the thicker limitation of NR212 a wide root opening or a beval greater than 45 degrees (included) can present fracture issues with guided bends. (over alloying I think)...
Here is a link to the Lincoln complete "Innershield" catalogue...
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c32000.pdf Download and save the file.. It has *great* information on selection and even on technique (self-shielded runs way different) but you know that already I bet.
Also keep in mind that if your project is in compliance with D1.1 (pipe with backing rings sound structural) That pre-qualified FCAW WPS's require CV power supplies. This may be an issue when you are outfitting your SA200's
"3.2.4 FCAW and GMAW Power sources. FCAW
and GMAW that is done with prequalified WPSs shall
be performed using constant voltage (CV) power supplies"
Hello Dwayne, the LN-25 is a great voltage sensing feeder, have run many of them during and over my career with no issues, the LN-25 Pro isn't quite in the same class and I have heard of many who are dissatisfied with them. The Miller 8VS and 12VS are also great feeders, I have operated the 12VS's personally and really liked how they operated, the Hobart Hefty CC/CV is also a reasonably good feeder, although I wouldn't class it the same as either of the Millers or Lincoln that I mentioned above. The older Miller that is housed in a sky blue plastic case is somewhat of a dud compared to their new ones. Reaching back a bit the LN-22 is another Lincoln workhorse, although I can't remember right now whether it is CC/CV capable, I'm thinking that it was designed for CC only. I believe it was touched on briefly by the other folks who replied, but you can use either CC or CV output to run self-shielded wires. You do however, need to qualify a procedure with a CC power source, the welds done with the CV are pre-qualified, that's the main difference. Some of the wires that folks have mentioned will need to be looked at carefully, some of them have deposit thickness limitations and if those thicknesses are exceeded they are prone to cracking. A bit more for your consideration. Best regards, Allan
They all work good, my brothers and I together have one of each, Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart. Lincoln and Miller are the easy to get parts for around here. You will need a 14lb coil adaptor for the .068 or 5/64 wire if you go with that size. The only problem I had with my SA-200 was the duty cycle because the .068 or 5/64 wire runs at 200+ amps. Don’t let any one talk you into the LN-23P since you are using flux core wire. They are a pain to re-string the wire in.
Cant go wrong with the LN-25. I have several of them. I also have several miller SP-32's and i prefer the Lincoln every day of the week. They will run a NR-211 on CC without fail but to run a GOOD quality wire with any charpy notch value CV is almost mandatory.
Self shielded most of my guys prefer Esab Coreshield-8 in 0.072" Personally i like NR-232 in 0.072" but im one of the very few.
For a gas shielded FCAW electrode we using nothing but Lincoln's 71 C in 0.052" its a sweet running wire. 90% of our work is structural's done to seismic standers. Now adopting the D1.8 as gospel in this area.
Your going to have a hell of a time running a wire with any sort of deposition rate off of a SA200. 300 amp machines have a hell of a time keeping up some days.
Innershield 211 is garbage unless your doing non critical work like pickets in handrails and such man up and run some coershield 8 u girly men oh and u need cv to do mig/fcaw pipe i would think unless its hillbilly pipelinin time get r done i think they run lincoln nr207 up here and im a lincoln man at heart but the miller suit cases are built super tough the new Ln-25 pro dual power is the best for versatilty
By rslif
Date 11-11-2009 11:01
Judging from the number of responses it seems the LN25 wins out hands down. I have to agree. We have 14 LN25's and 1 Miller (which is the last to leave the cage always) for good reason. The LN25's run problem free consistently. Our oldest LN25 is 11 and all get used extensively (we are structural erectors). We have never had a problem with the suitcase itself, just with liners,triggers,etc on the guns. We run Lincoln Magnum 300's with 1/16" ESAB Coreshield 8.
We have 30+ miller suitcase extreme boxes on our construction site, the boxes have had no problems in 11 months. The guns have typical issues with liners, tips, triggers, ground wires, etc. like all GMAW equipment. Make sure you have plenty of consumables on hand.
Refer to Dualie's advice, the machine pushing the wirefeeder will have to have some grunt with the thicker wire. And the really good wire like esab and lincoln only come in the the thicker diameters. .064 minimum, I believe, and that might not be enough for what you need to do. Even if the machine's rating says it's barely enough, it won't be. More is better w/regard to wirefeeders, I've found. As mentioned above, stick out is critical. I use an ln-25 with a 400 amp gun and gas option. I like it.
Hay cactus I am running the new LN-25 pro off my vantage and using 1/16 flux core wire and I could not be happier with it welding heavy plate lugs down smooth as butter
What kind of wire are you using ? I have the ESAB Factory rep meeting me on the Job Monday to run some Coresheild 8. Hope it runs as good as he says it does. He also says their VS Feeder is the Cadillac of all feeders as well. WE SHALL SEE.
Coreshield 8 runs real nice. I didn't know ESAB made a vs feeder
I didn't either. I looked at it on their website. The 300VS looks just like a Miller. Probably the same thing
I have an ESAB Mobile Master that has done as well as the Miller S 32 P. Like them both. Never had the opportunity to run the LN-25.
Same factory different box
NR-232 and it is .068 wire sorry not 1/16 my bad have not run it out of position though but lays nice three pass on lugs easy to chip flux after
Cactus, Have run the coreshield 8 ESAB , excellent wire as far as feeders LN-7's, ESAB is big on the european side of the world , used to run LN-25 suitcases before machines came out with CV . As far as big wires on SA-200 w/cc, I burned one up, had alot of silver metal laying on the bed of the truck under the generator barrel, scrapped machine and bought a SA-250 but NEVER used it for anything but stick.(old timer once told me a welding machine ( like SA-200 or 250) is made for 1 thing only stick welding, not air arc, water line thawing, jobsite power,etc. and I've remembered that advice to this day.PS. GO STEELERS on the hunt for #7 ( Kicked the mares arse Monday and hopefully the bungles this Sunday)
YES SIR, I agree with him ! My Son's machine is the one I am worried about. He has a SA-200. SO.... I think I have a cure for the problem. I am ordering a new Vantage 500 Compact in the morning. That should do the trick !
Personally I have an older MillerS32P and an even older LN-25. I just bought an Miller 8VS because of the size and it is also a great feeder. I take great care of all my equipment and have had nothing but good luck with all my stuff. My favorite is the new 8VS. You cant go wrong with Miller or Lincoln IMO.
At work... My old LN-7's cant be beat. Have 2 LN-35's for hardfacing, good machines. Several LN-25 and 12VS for smaller field work. I have not had any problems with any of the feeders at all, the problem is with the guns. Some of these guys don't give a darn about taking care of them at all, I don't forget who those guys are either!
Go with the Lincoln for ease of connection to the Vantages and better consumables/guns. Coreshield 8 is a really good wire IMO, Lincoln also has great wires to choose froom. We are welding mining equipment so I cant recommend a good pipe wire.
I know ya a red guy there but i have been using a 12 vs miller it will go both ways cc and cv cv works smoother and it has all the bells and whisles just a option but yeah i do use linc. wire
best reguards
mac
i have a sa-250 with the perkins, it does have a cv adapter installed, ive used the crap out of it welding .072 nr 232 flux core, and 1/16 dual shield
its also seen plenty of 5/32 carbons, and 7018
and it always works perfect, i wouldnt worry about your machine at all if its in good shape
Cactus,
You may not want to hear this but the miller 12VS is in my mind the easyest machine to run of all I have used including the LN-25 which I have always found to be problematic and a pain to adlust. The 12VS will run in either CV or CC mod is easy to adjust, can change wires in minutes etc etc. I use this machine on a regular basis and to some degree have almost eliminated stick welding altogether on a day to day rutine. I am not a fan of gas less wire and run either .035 solid or .045 dual shield and for most cases 75/25 for gas. there is some issues with windy days but in extreme cases I would set up some tarps, or just increase the gas flow abit when this dose'nt solve the the problem I switch back to stick welding. The machine itself is extremely rugged I can tell you this from personel experience I have dropped it, drug it trough the mud, left it in the rain and snow and even let an apprentice use it and it just keeps on going. Also the 12VS can be run out as far as you like from the truck without any issues I do use a remote with mine to eliminate the walk back to the truck but on a seperate lead. They do make one with the remote built in but it is limited to 100'. As far as horizontal welds are concerned you will wonder why you didn't use it before as is the same for any position once you have established your perameters, it is just a twist of the dail to go from flat ,Horizontal,Vertical and overhead. From what you have described you will be hard pressed to find another machine that will keep up. That will perform day in and day out for the money and yes it even plugs into a lincoln. I have used a vast array of wire in the machine and for the most part I would have to say it's what ever you like best. The machine will run wire from .030 to 1/16 but you will need to change liners and use a bigger gun for the big stuff. I run miller guns as well but you can use what ever you like, What I do like about the miller guns is that they are eronomically (spelling?) designed and both allow the neck to be rotated as I'm sure others do. I am not a salesman for miller but I belief you will not be disapointed with this machine I have made thousands with this machine and continue to do so and my only expence has been worn out contact tips.
Regards, Richard
I don't know if your looking at Renting or Buying, but i was down in Houston doing a repair job and rent a Bobcat 225 with a Miller Suite case using .045 Dual Shield and it worked great (If you don't mind Blue). But I rent it from mitrowski welding their are out of south Houston and I think it was like 150 a day to rent. And they can deliver the stuff to you.
!/8" Slow- High rod (E7018) is faster than .045 FCAW with the Bobcat
Had to use WPS called out for it on Repairs.
.045 Dual Shield with 75/25 can run vert-up @ 400 ipm (215 amps) without comming all that close to the top duty cycle of a Bobcat (275 amps).
I'd really like to see 1/8 E7018 stick rod try to keep up with that :)
Self shielded FCAW is another thing altogether.
I was going by personal experience with now antiquated technology. Perhaps the newer "NT" machines have overcome this flaw.
My old (bought new in 1993 model Bobcat) machine when placed in CV mode would not deliver those numbers. It would do slightly better in CC with the LN-25 selector on CC, but the electrical stick-out was so sensitive that it was hardly worth the effort.
0.045" FCAW wire was the largest it would burn, but fullthrottle it would weld 3/16 E7018 just fine.
Its not welding machine its the wire FCAW self sheild and FCAW gas sheild are completely different . any machine that will put out 26volts cv will run .045 gas sheilded FCAW at 350 ipm with no problem . self sheilded wire is crap , 7018 -1/8 will run circles around it
"self sheilded wire is crap , 7018 -1/8 will run circles around it "
That is just not true.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I didn't like self sheilded wire when I tried it .I might have gave up on it too soon.
The Hobart Fabshield XLR-8 (E71T-8J H8) self shielded fcaw Is imho a great low hydrogen (H8) with high impact strength at low temperatures (40 @ -20F & 31 @ -40F). Designed for CV multipass, easy slag removal. Usable under D1.8. It welds a bit different in that you drag it vertical up, don't push it up. I use the 1/16" on 12# spools with the Miller 8vs and the Trailblazer 302. 19-23 volts 150-260 amps. Pretty wide window of operation.
yeah its the hobart version of nr-232, i think esab has the smothest running t8 wire called coreshield 8
it is pretty amazing wire, you can carry alot of metal out of position, just dont get ahead of it or you will dig a hole to china lol
and you can weld circles around someone running 7018 with this wire
