Interesting thread. I would like to add a couple cents here.
1. I know several people who complained about unions taking dues, corruption in the rank and file, protecting slugs, etc. These same people are always happy however, when they get on state funded jobs as operators or tank builders in closed states. They say wow, I am making 3 times as much money now. In prevailing wage states, non-union contrators have to pay an hourly wage equivalent to what a union contractor has to pay including the cost of health insurance, pension, vacation etc. They are willing to accept at this time what union people much older than I fought and even died for, yet maintain that union's are no good. Where do these same people, that say if it were not for overtime, I could not make it, think that overtime came from. (Which by the way, our current president, sentate, and congress have decided is not nessesary for chefs, nurses, and lots of others not covered by union contracts and signed a bill to that effect).
2. There are also those members of unions (the whats in it for me or as long as it does not affect me group) who say the union does nothing for me. They are the first ones to call the union hall and complain about conditions on the job, that this is not right, that isn't right, etc. However when it comes time to make a stand on the job rather than taking the issue to the union hall and rectifying the problem right there on the job, will back down roll over and let the contractor run ammuck over them. A lack of solidarity by the members themselves is in itself one of the major drawbacks for the unions.
3. While there are companies and contractors out there that truly do see their employees as a commodity and care about their well being, safety, etc. rather than an expense, there are alot more that don't. These are the ones that can benifit from union representation. I have seen in this area, attempts by health care professionals to organize only to be basically driven right out of a job by harrassment, lies, etc. Before the vote, the health care conglomorate, (non-profit, yea right) pacify many by relaxing attendance rules, being more caring about the employees etc. only to drop the hammer after the vote was taken and the organization attempt fail and demand double shifting, call employees in on days off and demand they report or suffer the consequenses. Amazing how things change once the monkey is off their back.
I will quit now. I could go on for quite a while.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Mike
In seeing that the thread stopped with my last post, I hope that I did not offend anyone with it. I am proud to be a member of Boilermakers Union since 1973. Now that this teaching job has come to an end, I feel quite fortunate that I can walk right back into the construction field. I was merley pointing out what I see as some of the problems.
Mike
I was not offended. I did not start this string but I am grateful for your input on the subject.
I didn't take offens and welcomed the information. I'm still new to the union and have much to learn.
Thanks
Gerald Austin
Thank you both.
Any questions you have Gerald, I will be more than happy to try to answer, find the answer, or direct you to someone that can help.
Thank you too RonG
Mike
Mike, AMEN BROTHER! Boilermaker since 1997 and have liked for teh most part, everything that the union has done except for cut the pension back. Fraternally, JW. BM. LU. 60
Yes- a very interesting topic.
There are, sadly, a great many companies where unions are NEEDED, and there are some companies where they are not. I know. I have worked for some companies that took advantage of the workers and I have worked at a few where we were treated with respect.
If a company respects it's employees, they will treat them good and provide for them. Too many employers have the false idea that they are doing the employees a favor just giving them a job- what would they do without the employees, where would they be? Could they maintain the level of production and make a profit without someone to do the work for them.
I have also seen the unions get so out of hand that projects had to be shut down due to excessive cost over-runs caused by unions not allowing workers to be layed off during slow periods on the project. Talk to anyone that worked at the Hanford Nuclear Projects in Tri-Cities area of Washington State twenty years ago when the project was shut down and mothballed.
As Q.C., I worked for a union that could not handle it's own affairs and had to be taken over by the International- yes, we got good pay, but that was just about it. The insurence wasn't worth crap. When one of my co-workers tried to organize a company several years ago, he wanted that same union. I, and others tried to talk him into chosing another union to represent us, but no, he started the ball rolling and the company fought and won due to the local having been taken over by the International.
Enough of my rambling- if your employer won't treat you fairly and with respect, then go ahead and organize. Just be carefull who you get to represent you.
Good Luck
Roger King