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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Another shooting.
- - By 46.00 (****) Date 01-15-2014 14:18
Just reading about the terrible incident at Roswell. Is this going to be the final nail in the coffin for the argument against Obama's gun laws?
Parent - By SCOTTN (***) Date 01-15-2014 17:49
Glyn,

I heard about that, and my thoughts and prayers have gone out to everyone affected by that tragedy.  This kind of thing seems to be happening way too often these days and I’m concerned that it’s only going to get worse.

A couple thoughts about firearms…. I do agree with the banning of assault weapons, but they forgot one.: Obama’s assault weapon….. the pen he uses to sign his name.
 
With regard to Obama’s gun laws, I’ve never owned a gun.  I grew up on a large farm in the mountains of Boone, N.C.  My grandpaw, my uncles, and my dad used guns for hunting.  My dad took me hunting a couple times, but I didn’t really have much interest in guns.  Even though I’ve never owned a firearm, and I can count on one hand how many times I’ve actually fired one, I’m very concerned about our government imposing gun control on its citizens because over the years, the excuse given by authorities of other countries was that they need to take guns away from citizens in order to lower crime rates is not supported by facts....

In 1911 Turkey disarmed its citizens, and between 1915 and 1917 they murdered 1.5 million Armenians.
In 1929 Russia disarmed its citizens, and between 1929 and 1953 they murdered 20 million Russians.
In 1935 China disarmed its citizens, and between 1948 and 1952 they murdered at least 20 million Chinese (other figures go much higher)
In 1938 Germany disarmed its citizens, and between 1939 and 1945 they murdered 16 million people.  You don’t need guns, they said.  Board the train, they said.
In 1956 Cambodia disarmed its citizens, and between 1975 and 1977 they murdered 1 million people.
In 1964 Guatemala disarmed its citizens, and between1964 and 1981 they murdered 100,000 Mayan Indians.
In 1970 Uganda disarmed its citizens, and between 1971 and 1979 they murdered 300,000 Christians.

I pray that history doesn’t repeat itself, as the authority here has an agenda to disarm our citizens.  Given past history on the subject, I’m concerned that the people calling for gun control today might turn out to be the same ones calling for the government to use guns on those who’ve been disarmed tomorrow.  Free people own guns.  Slaves don’t.  If you don’t have to give up your car because others drive drunk with theirs, then why do you have to give up your gun because others commit crimes with theirs? If we’re not going to have the right to bear arms, we may as well post a sign in our yard…. “Gun Free Home” Notice to anyone entering: “There are no guns or trained shooters in this home at any time”.  I guess if we hear a loud crash in our home at 3 am, we’d better grab the fly swatter and carefully assess the situation.  With guns, we defend our president and his family, our congressmen, our governors, our celebrities, our sporting events, our jewelry stores, our banks, our office buildings, our factories, and our courts.  We defend our children with a sign that reads: THIS IS A GUN FREE ZONE, and then we call someone with a gun if there’s an emergency, but wait a minute...... if it's a gun free zone, we can't enter it with guns.  How do we get around that? The president’s kids are protected by guns.  I guess his kids are more important than ours.  Ronald Reagan once said “You won’t get gun control by disarming law abiding citizens.  There’s only one way to get real gun control: Disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up and if you don’t actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time… It’s a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers.  I happen to know this from personal experience.” 
Obama has said that “we cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set.  We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded”.  It needs to be pointed out that in any massacre, the law abiding citizens are violated twice….  (1) by the dead, by the psychos who kill them, and (2) by the living politicians who try to disarm them from the next psycho.  Maybe we do need a centralized federal database of law abiding citizens, because after all, a centralized federal database of law abiding citizens is the hallmark of a free society.  George Washington once said “When any nation mistrusts its citizens with guns it is sending a clear message.  It no longer trusts its citizens because such a government has evil plans”.  Thomas Jefferson said “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”.  Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton all supported our right to bear arms.  Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Amin, Lenin, and Obama oppose that right.  Who do you trust?
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 01-15-2014 18:01
A 12 year old takes a sawed of shotgun to school.
Please tell me what new law is needed by Beloved Leader which would have prevented this from occurring.
In this world their is evil. Thousands of man made laws spell out the consequences of failing to observe these man made laws. There is and will always be humans who have limited or no moral compass.
Regardless what Beloved Leader and his minions want the people to believe, laws will be followed by moral law abiding people. You can pass more laws and it will not change what a 12 year old without a moral compass will do to satisfy themselves. Evil, like the poor will always be with us.
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 01-15-2014 21:02
Good points.  In many ways America seems to be making the same mistakes as Germany did prior to the outbreak of World War II.  Since taking office in 2008, on the promise of hope and change, Beloved Leader has launched an aggressive assault on America's liberty.  He has armed America's enemies, violating his oath of office, by sending money and weapons of war to insurgents in Syria led by Al-Qaeda terrorists.  He has violated federal law by overseeing a cover up surrounding attorney general Eric Holder's operation "Fast and Furious", in the running of guns to Mexican drug cartels.  He has lied to the American people by overseeing a cover-up of the September 11 Benghazi terror attack in Libya which led directly to the deaths of four American citizens.  He has bypassed Congress using executive order prior to the attack on Libya, insisting that congressional approval was not necessary.  He has signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act which includes provisions to permit the abduction and military detention without trial of all US citizens, violating "Habeas corpus" - the right to a fair trial.  And on January 16th 2013, one year ago tomorrow, he surrounded himself with children as he signed twenty three different executive orders for broader gun control in the United States.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-16-2014 04:24
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

VERY WELL SAID Scott + Kahunna!

again BRAVO!

by the way according to our vice president everyone just needs a shotgun.....the facts are the same evil or crazy it does not matter, the instrument will change with the times at hand it is that simple. 

I would not let my wife get a conceal carry....why, cause she has the wrong temperament to have one. 

Guns are just inanimate objects just like four wheelers, motorcycles, parachutes, lawnmowers, can openers, cars, trucks, gas pipe, oil tanks or anything else....people mixed with them make them become dangerous. 

They got it all wrong just eliminate all the people and then everything will become safe as can be.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-16-2014 05:13
Just like good and evil.....there will be those who talk, and those who do.

Christians, and the rest of us who use our brains.
Parent - - By grizzzly (**) Date 01-16-2014 04:24
It is already to illegal to shoot another person

whats another law going to do?
Parent - - By grizzzly (**) Date 01-16-2014 04:58
I just googled these numbers
Since 1980, 297 People Have Been Killed in School Shootings that’s less than 10 people per year
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/12/sandy_hook_a_chart_of_all_196_fatal_school_shootings_since_1980_map.html
that tragic and all but

In 2010 (the most recent year for which data are available), 38,364 suicides were reported
someone in the country died by suicide every 13.7 minutes. http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
Drug overdose was responsible for 38,329 deaths in the US in 2010. http://www.overdoseday.com/facts-stats/
That is only one year

In my opinion the reason the gun debate is so huge is because politicians get paid to lobby for new laws  and the bigger the fight the more money they get. And what better way to start a fight than for them to try to wipe there fat asses with the blood, sweat and tears of our forefathers.

The gun debate isn’t really about guns its about greed
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 01-16-2014 17:24
Hold on a second grizzzly.  Maybe it’s not about greed.  Think about it.  Gun control makes absolutely perfect sense, because becoming a victim is morally superior to defending yourself and your family.  What makes that thought even more appealing to politicians is that they would never have to worry about being a victim, because out of professional courtesy, thieves would never rob them. 
Instead of giving a politician the keys to the city, it might be better to change the locks.  Don’t you remember being in elementary school and learning about history, when our forefathers stood in line to register their firearms? Yeah, that’s what I thought.  I don’t remember either.  
This country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem, and a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem.  We all place ourselves in danger to one degree or another when we stand up.  But we place our children and our grandchildren in even greater danger when we don’t.  Now I have to admit that I like Obama just as much as the next guy, if not less.  I’ve even got a big picture of him on the tailgate of my truck.  Underneath his picture, it says “Does this ass make my truck look big”.  I remember when I was a boy I was told repeatedly by my parents and my teachers that anybody could become President.  Ain’t that the truth. 
I think that the current administration should seriously consider changing the emblem from an eagle to a condom because it more accurately reflects its political stance.  A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed.  On second thought, can that notion because they wouldn’t even have the common decency to give us a reach around while they’re screwing us. 
You know, the nine most terrifying words in the English language are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help”.  Help us how? If you really want to help us, don’t help us.  If the federal government was in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in two years.  I just hope that they never find life on other planets, because sure as hell, our government will start sending them money.  Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.  Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Promise a man someone else’s fish each day and you create an Obama supporter.   How about this novel approach…. Instead of using our taxes to pay for bills for other countries, how about paying for our own? And speaking of taxes, all I’m going to say about taxes is that evidently it’s not considered theft if you have to fill out a form.  Oh well.  That’s enough political jokes for now.  If you want to see more, you’ll have to visit Washington.  That’s where they go after they’re elected.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-16-2014 20:03
About Laws and fixing cultures with them.

"I used to think I was serving humanity... and I pleasured in the thought.
Then I discovered that humanity does now want to be served;
on the contrary it resents any attempt to serve it."

~Jubal Harshaw
- - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-16-2014 23:09
Blade of Perfunctoriness

A society that attempts by force of law, to make everyone equal will fail. The failure mechanism is that its impossible to make everyone equal in abilities (of all kinds).

Humans as a whole tend to be extremely diverse in both physical and mental abilities, with no two exactly the same. One example person may have a better understanding of quantum mechanics, but be unable to climb a ladder fighting a fire. The other may have the ability to climb that ladder and rescue another person, but unable grasp the quantum world at all. In their own way, society as a whole needs both of them to advance, but due to political correctness which is being codified into laws, neither will achieve their full potential.

One of the key failures in liberalism, and political correctness is that everyone must be on the same level. Since example person A will be naturally gifted at one thing, but example person B will be naturally gifted at another, both must be reduced to a common denominator. The unavoidable destiny of liberalism and political correctness is a society of mediocrity bent on self destruction.

That mediocre society will punish success, reward failure, kill the drive to succeed, and overtime, effectively eviscerate itself on the blade of perfunctoriness.

The blade manifest itself on an inverse logarithmic scale of calamity.  At the onset of societal degradation, its minor events such as small insults, tweaking honesty, minor wounds. In it's latter stages, everything is a major insult and lie that leads to cheapening of human life down to the level of a .99 cent burger. Concepts such as honor and honesty, trustworthiness and ethics become the subject of word games designed to shame others, while considering them too much bother by the orneriest individual attempting to manipulate their fellow man for their own purposes.

The great social experiment has failed, all that is left now is to mop up the blood that is and will flow in the streets as a consequence of it's failure.
Parent - - By 46.00 (****) Date 01-22-2014 04:41
Thanks for the input!

I hope that the actions of these minority of sick people do not affect the will of the vast majority of decent upstanding people and cause them to lose their rights under the American constitution. However, I fear the gears of reform are already in motion and it will not be too long before the majority of American citizens are as toothless as us British are!
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-23-2014 01:48
Gerald,

Stricter gun laws and the enforcement thereof is something they will have much difficulty in achieving.  On paper everything may be to their liking but in reality, most of us will still be just as well armed as before the law.  Getting arms out of the hands of NOW law abiding citizens of the United States will be akin to pulling abscessed alligators teeth with a pair of tweezers.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 01-23-2014 05:48
Hence the record number of gun sales in the last two years. Wished I bought stock in cocked and loaded or Glock and carry.  Orrr shoot first ask later.
Parent - - By weldwade (***) Date 02-13-2014 05:08
I will keep every firearm I own and pass them on to my children when I pass. The second amendment protects that right for me. Any law that is passed to contradict the second amendment is illegal IMO. The term assault weapon is nothing more than a scare tactic of those who want to control the population. All firearms in existence were designed for military use originally. People who murder other people will do so no matter what laws or tools are available. A firearm is a tool. A hammer is a tool. A rock is a tool. And those three things have killed people in the hands do a deranged person. So ban guns and not rocks or hammers??? Stupidity at work in my opinion. Money, power and greed should replace the term "assault weapon". I am happy that I am fortunate enough to have my tools. My tools provide my existence in this world. All of my tools can protect me from the bad the world has to dish out.

So I stick up my middle finger to those who want to infringe on my right to keep and bear arms.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-13-2014 07:46
Can I get an AMEN TO THAT!!!:yell::yell::yell::smile::grin::lol:
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-13-2014 18:17 Edited 02-13-2014 18:19
New, more restrictive gun laws are not going to affect the numbers of criminals that carry illegal guns and kill each other or innocent victims.

There are laws on the books that make certain activities illegal, but the criminals are not abiding by the existing laws, nor are they likely to abide by any new legislation passed by our governing bodies.

I don't own a gun for good reason. My wife would have too many opportunities and too many reasons to use it on me.

Our lawmakers are largely spineless individuals that respond to the loudest voices with the most money to offer. It is unfortunate, but it is the way our government works. If the politician doesn't respond to the loudest voices, they don't get the money needed to run their campaigns. Therefore, they accept the money and cast their votes with their largest contributors in mind. Our Supreme Court has sided with big money. The ability to contribute to a politician of choice is protected as an extension of our Freedom of Speech. Who said we don't have the finest government money can buy?

Best regards - Al
Parent - By weldwade (***) Date 02-17-2014 00:12
Amen Al!!!
- - By SCOTTN (***) Date 02-17-2014 20:43
I'm with Al on this one.  There is no way I'm getting my wife a gun because there is no way I'll ever be able to avoid getting shot with it.  Buying my wife a gun is like me saying, I'm planning to kill myself, but I want it to be a surprise.  An even better scenario would be for me and the wife to be in a bank while it's being robbed.  I can see it now.  A man with a gun goes into the bank, approaches a teller, and demands money.  Once he's given the money, he turns to the man that's standing in line in front of us and asks, Did you see me rob this bank? The man replies, Yes sir, I did, and the robber shoots him.  Then the robber turns to us, looks at me, and asks, Did you see me rob this bank? To which I reply, No sir, I didn't, but my wife did.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-20-2014 03:17
Not to even debate the gun laws but just interject my household into it.

I have a CC in two states
My wife has no cc because I refuse to let her get one.  She has the wrong temperment to carry in public, has nothing to do with me, I wish I could be confident in her having the license.
My sons are excellent marksmen and well trained on gun safety.  I am positive no body will get shot by them they do not endeavor to shoot/kill.  Same for the rest of my children eventually.

Guns are no different then can openers, threewheelers, or skinning knives....if you are stupid and you use them somebody is likely to die.  If you have respect and some semblance of intelligence no inanimate object on this planet can cause you harm, only your own actions can.  Sorry folks, I need no law to protect me from myself.   If you believe you need a law to protect me from my own self your are my enemy.  I believe FIRMLY in freedom of speech, (my gosh look what I hear and am willing to bear without violence), I believe in my right to arm and protect my self aS WELL as what belongs to me, I believe in my right to vote into office those who wield authority over me. 

There is plenty of wording in the charter of the US that legally protects its citizenry from the potential abusive powers of the three branches of its govt.  Since FDR we have seen a tremendous abuse of the executive branch...it seems to be becoming a tradition or state of to aspire too.   

I was BORN with a set of rights, I shall enforce what has been given to me.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Another shooting.

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