WPS vs Code

Date 01-24-2014 23:27

They are ugly welds.............! Not only was undercut present, what about the Arc Strikes and the excessive weld reinforcement (Cap) height? Do they not use run on/run off tabs where you are on plate test pieces?

Usually, when a stipulation is made as regards how wide a weave is allowed with a given electrode, it is mentioned on the WPS. Almost always this is a contract specific requirement and so usually will be above and beyond any code paragraphs.

1/8" x 3 is roughly 3/8" x 2 is nearly 3/4"! Plus a lee way for spillage or 'wash' and you have an inch to play with! This should easily be achievable on the thickness of plate given a standard joint configuration. The fact that the welders felt their welds were presentable to you in that state, says it all. You did right in showing them the highway!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 01-25-2014 02:12

You got my vote John.

Glyn pretty much described everything I saw. Without being able to put any tools on it I would have stated it more as a question but they don't look at all acceptable to me. And many of the ripples look like he was coming too far out of the weld puddle and actually has lack of fusion/overlap down the bead as well.

The codes may not define or describe 'ugly', but this guy did.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By 46.00

Date 01-25-2014 03:03

Yeah and I'm sure there are some cavities or pores present as well! Pretty ugly!

By Superflux (****)

Date 01-25-2014 08:55

46.00,

Run-off tabs are/were removed prior to presentation to QC. I always like to see the ends and check for porosity, slag, fusion etc.
Most welders I've encountered truly do not know the effective or proper use of run-off tabs. Often times, this is a major problem with underfill on 1" test plates. Welders and foremen are always trying to inform me that the ends of the test plate (bend testing) are removed and discarded and therefore out of the area of interest... BS! The entire weld is MY area of interest.
Oh well, if everyone knew how to build and weld metal products to perfection, I'd have to change careers. Again.

Sequence of Authority in ascending order: 1) Code. 2) Company/Contractor policy (if above and beyond applicable code). 3) Project specifications. 4) QC judgement calls... sometimes subject to negotiations.

Arguing with QC is like mud rasslin' a hog. Whether you win (rarely) or loose you might realize, both QC and the hog were having more fun than you. Hehehehehe
I love my job...

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 01-25-2014 11:07

Come on John, maybe he's an artist and this was his impression of the Sierra Nevada's!!

An old phrase comes to mind, "Ugly as a mud fence" or maybe "so ugly it would scare 9 pennies out of a dime",

By SCOTTN

Date 01-25-2014 17:26

John mentioned that welders and foremen are always trying to inform him that the ends of the test plate are removed and discarded and therefore out of the area of interest. I have heard and experienced the same thing. After I’d heard it three or four times, and before anyone else takes the test, I remind them that the ends need to be welded properly and I remind them that even though the ends are not going to be a part of the bend test, they are still part of the weld test and every part of the weld has to meet visual criteria. I also explain to them that production groove welds will have to extend all the way to the ends and they must meet acceptance criteria at each end. The weld test will indicate whether they have the ability to do that properly when the time comes. John also mentioned Rosie O'Donnell being ugly in a thong. Rosie O’Donnell in thongs? I’m gonna need some mind bleach to remove that mental picture. That reminded me of the time she got arrested at the airport. I don't remember which airport, but a security guard lifted up her dress and found 200 pounds of crack in her thongs.

By UIWmike Date 01-26-2014 03:19

Table 6.1 of D1.1 any crack shall be unacceptable regardless of size and location, well, for production anyhow. I suspect Rosie's crack is statically loaded.

By UIWmike Date 01-26-2014 03:35

D1.1; 4.9.3.3 (4) I'm taking my CWI using the D1.1 in six weeks. Got any good advice on how to do well in part-B? What instruments would be best to use?

Mike

By Superflux (****)

Date 01-26-2014 11:05

All gauges are supplied for the test. Bring a flashlight and possibly a magnifying glass.
As in any code referencing, the devil is in the foot notes. I think that might be the deal breaker and why Part-B is the "axe man" of the CWI exam.
Study and Good luck.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 01-26-2014 13:33 Edited 01-26-2014 15:18

I know they provide a flashlight, such as it is, and I believe a magnifying glass also.

Definitely, fillet gauges, AWS gauge, 6" rule, calipers, micrometer, and others are supplied.

Have you bought any books for self study ahead of time?

Oh, not you John, newcomer Mike: WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

Have a Great Day, Brent

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 01-26-2014 15:21

Biggest part of people's hang up with part B is remembering that the "code" is a bogus code. It highly resembles D1.1 but with certain modifications to trip you up. Do not go by memory. Use the book and especially, as John noted, the footnotes.

The test is designed to prove that an AWS/CWI can inspect to any code. But, if you memorize a code and are always trying to apply it, then you can't. So, read the applicable 'code' book and make it work.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Superflux (****)

Date 01-26-2014 19:51

Brent,
My tired eyes do not appreciate the aspherical aberration of cheap magnifiers, and at that point (2007) in time, a 3 lens geologists loupe was a daily carry item as much as a pocket knife. I had not yet received prescription glasses. The test supplied flash light was one of them newfangled LED lights (2007 LEDs were in their infancy). The little torch was about the size of a AA battery and emitted a very purplish glow (not a very user friendly wavelength to my poor eyesight). Also, most fortunately for me that morning, in my everyday carry arsenal is a surefire flashlight. I was very thankful to have it on me.
What was NOT in my pocket as I headed out the door was a calculator... It flashed on me as I went past the hotel door. Immediately doing a 180°, I asked the concierge to borrow their 4 function paperback novel sized one. I'm always pushing the clock to it's limit and being in a strange big city (Portland, OR) was not going to be able to make it to any store a get one on the way. I had already made a sample run to the test site and knew there was nothing between hotel and exam location.

To the OP, remember that both code portions (part B and open book) of the test are designed to test one's ability to research and interpret those findings. Details my friend, it's all in the details.
Hopefully for the benefit of your successful passing, you are engaged in a methodical study and not depending on the "Brain Transplant" so many mistakenly think a seminar will provide.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 01-26-2014 23:24

When I proctor the exams I generally have a couple of extra calculators with me. If anyone ever needs one, as John said, ask at the desk and/or check with your test proctors.

I even have an extra D1.1 or two with me, no tabs, but it is better than not having it. I have loaned them out twice. :confused:

Having your own light is not forbidden and, as John has said, is far better than what they issue.

No audible timers or calculators with noise, equipment that can record, take pictures, store information, etc. More involved but you will get your instructions at the exams. And they will be watching, just ask anyone who has taken it in Phoenix while on my watch.

Portland, OR? My home country. By 07 I had been in AZ for 10 years though.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 01-26-2014 23:36 Edited 01-26-2014 23:51

No need no tools to reject that abortion.
That dude no does has the ability to deposit sound weld metal in a neat workmanlike manner.
I would have about 3/4 of the welding foreman backside for sending this guy to test.
I feel sorry for the welder. That was probably the best he could do.
And his boss knew it!
Do not know how far you could push it but the welding boss and I would have a private chat where he would be very clear on your expectations from what his workers would present to you. Might mention maybe, pride?
You have your hands full buddy.