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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / These are terrible times for vets!
- - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 05:48 Edited 05-23-2014 05:52
I apologize in advance if by raising these embarrassing realities in these times offends anyone, or puts a damper on the spirit of Memorial Day...:sad::mad::sad::mad::cry::sad::mad::confused::sad:::mad::twisted::sad::sad::sad: Still it needs to be made aware of!

Now we all should know that Memorial Day is the day we as Americans honor our fallen veterans and exhibit some form of emotional support to their families...
And Veterans Day is to honor for the most part our Veterans the are currently serving as well as those who have served in the past...
On Veterans day I also reflect about some of the men I had the privilege to know and serve with as well as some who have passed since also...

But right now I'm STEAMING MAD and EMBARRASSED that even though they're not the majority of all Vets. Nonetheless some of our Veterans are being mistreated as second class citizens in different ways and it should be fixed YESTERDAY!!! What I'm pointing out to is the sad fact the there are wounded Veterans that are waiting too long to be properly treated and some are dying @ VA hospitals all over our country, or afterwards and that's EMBARRASSING!!!:mad::roll::cry::mad::sad::cry::yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::mad::sad::sad::sad:

I'm also STEAMING MAD about having so many Veterans becoming homeless all over our country as well...:sad::mad::slim::mad::sad::mad::sad::cry::sad::yell::mad::mad::mad:

There's something else that is going on that's EMBARRASSING as well which is not well known. And that is the SAD fact that many Veterans who have served with distinction who enlisted as non-citizens are being deported as soon as their tour of duty is completed and they are honorably discharged!!!:mad::yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::sad::sad::sad:

That's right, this is not as readily reported for many reasons but it has been going on for a long time now!!! Permit me to post some of this article I recently read that has me Soooo Friggin ANGRY @ the system that's overtly failing our beloved brothers and sisters in arms who are and have been our vets regardless if they are citizens or not:

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW... About 35,000 non-citizens currently serve in the U.S. military... Deportees include veterans who fought in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

"Hector Barajas joined the 82nd Airborne in 1995, he served as a paratrooper, jumping out of planes dozens of times and taking on various missions on behalf of his country. But in 2004, after being honorably discharged, the United States put him on a flight that led to his biggest battle: being deported to Mexico, a country he left before his fourth birthday.

Barajas, who had a green card, returned to California after his discharge. A month later he began having trouble with the law. He pled guilty to firing a weapon at a car that his friend believed was following them. No one was wounded and Barajas maintains he didn’t pull the trigger.

Had Barajas been a U.S. citizen, he would have served three years in a state prison and that would have been the end of it. But because he wasn’t, he was deported to Mexico a year later. He was doubly punished, and he’s not the only vet susceptible to that treatment.

About 35,000 non-citizens currently serve in the U.S. military and approximately 5,000 permanent resident aliens enlist each year.
“When you go to combat they don’t separate people as permanent residents, we’re all soldiers,” Barajas told Fusion.

That’s been the case since the Revolutionary War, when non-U.S. citizens were first eligible to enlist in the military. They have fought in the War of 1812, the Civil War, both World Wars and more recently Afghanistan and Iraq. But when non-citizens come back they’re not treated like their U.S.-born counterparts.

For example, multiple studies have found that soldiers who have seen combat face particular risk with substance abuse issues and are more likely to commit crimes compared to civilians. When non-U.S. citizens with substance abuse issues have interactions with the criminal justice system and get deported they lose access to such VA benefits.
They are essentially left without any resource to address the issues that led to their behavior.

According to calculations from Banished Veterans, a group Barajas leads, the number of deported veterans is in the tens of thousands and includes veterans from Vietnam, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. Barajas personally knows of 103 deported veterans and believes there could be as many as 30,000.

Louis Alvarez, a retired Marine who successfully fought his own deportation order and today remains in the U.S., believes there are at least 3,000 veterans in immigration detention center or in deportation proceedings at any given time.

"We did some research based on where I was detained in the El Centro Detention Center and how many veterans were detained at other locations and we multiplied that by the number of detention centers,” Alvarez explained. Alvarez is now a paralegal and is also a leader with Banished Veterans.
Alvarez knows his numbers may not be accurate but he has little else to go by.

"We tried to get the exact numbers and filed a Freedom for Information Act requests but every time we do the Department of Homeland security denies the requests citing national security," Alvarez told Fusion. The Department of Homeland security denied Fusion’s requests to confirm the number of deported veterans.
“Current and historical statistics on veteran removals are not readily available,” said Virginia Kice, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) spokesperson.
ICE also told Fusion they do take military service into consideration when considering removals.

“ICE exercises prosecutorial discretion for members of the armed forces who have honorably served our country on a case-by-case basis when appropriate." Former ICE Director Morton's June 2011 memo [PDF] on prosecutorial discretion specifically identifies service in the U.S. military as a positive factor that should be considered when deciding whether or not prosecutorial discretion should be exercised,” Kice said in a statement.

But immigration law experts like Margaret Stock, an attorney and expert in immigration and citizenship law, are wary of the ICE claim.
“A lot of these [veterans] could stop their deportation by applying for citizenship but they don’t know they’re eligible to apply,” Stock said. “The government hasn’t done a good job at informing veterans.” Normally a person with a green card has to wait five years to apply for citizenship, but there are exceptions for military personnel. In 2009 the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) established the Naturalization at Basic Training Initiative to give non-citizen enlistees the opportunity to apply for citizenship after they graduate from basic training. Last year the USCIS naturalized 5,563 service members.

The Law:
Many of the veterans that Fusion interviewed were deported for misdemeanors involving drug use. That’s because in 1996, Congress redefined the term aggravated felony in immigration code to include a swath of misdemeanors offenses. The problem with the blanket term “aggravated felony” is that it covers more than thirty types of offenses; drug possession, filing a false tax return and murder and rape all fall in the same category.

Some “aggravated felony” cases that resulted in deportations include “misdemeanor theft of items of minimal value such as a $10 video game, $15 worth of baby clothes” and “pointing out a suspected drug seller to a potential buyer,” according to a report from the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. [PDF]

Because deportation removals are civil proceedings, defendants don’t have a right to a free attorney. And many of the deportees don’t have access or the funds to hire an immigration lawyer. “The government has a lawyer and the government lawyers don’t often tell people about benefits that are available to them because the government lawyers job is to deport,” said Stock, who was recently named a 2013 MacArthur Fellow for her work on this issue, which includes people like Barajas.

The 1996 regulations that former president Bill Clinton signed in to law works retroactively, too. Today we’re deporting Vietnam veterans for crimes they committed a decade ago. Stock added that deporting highly trained veterans is cruel, but it’s also not smart. “It doesn’t make sense to deport somebody with military training into a country where they may be coerced into working for a bad organization that doesn’t have America’s best interest at heart,” Stock said.

In the End
The irony is that deported veterans who were honorably discharged can return to the U.S. when they’re dead. The vets are still entitled to burial at a U.S. military cemetery with an engraved headstone and their casket draped with an American flag, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
“Why wait until the day I die to be buried as an American,” Barajas said."

http://fusion.net/american_dream/story/veterans-day-us-veterans-deported-206794

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/releases/2011/110302washingtondc.pdf

http://www.ilrc.org/files/documents/ijn-aggravated-felony-factsheet.pdf

Now I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants who violate our laws and all that but, I draw the line when it comes to deporting a Veteran who has a Green card and has lived here for quite some time and ever since his/her time of service, he/she has fallen on hard times inevitably forcing them to do certain things that in fact break the law. But do not even get a chance to plead their case and are not even seen for the most part by real judges? This is just too much for me to accept as policy that's sound and fair which should be more deserving when it comes to people like Hector Barajas and Louis Alvarez. It's a damn shame that this is still going as I write this...:mad::yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::sad::yell::sad::cry:

So when you get a chance this weekend and on Memorial Day, Please show them that you appreciate their service and honor them as true hero's that are human and fallible too. These Veterans deserve so much better than what they're getting from the government.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By lo-hi (**) Date 05-23-2014 11:08
Henry, not sure how it worked when i was in,74 to 78, but we had people from Porto Rico that said they joined to be citizens. We were all pretty young so i could be mistaken. If risking your life for your country over and over again is not enough then what is? Why can foreign diplomats commit crimes and walk away?  I propose to alleviate the overcrowding at V.A. hospitals that all veterans can use the same facility's as our politicians, and they in turn, being government employees, use the V.A. Perley
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 17:18
I read you loud and clear Perley!

Btw, here's some facts that most people unfamiliar with the history of Puerto Rico...

From Wikipedia:

"Puerto Ricans have participated in many of the military conflicts in which the United States has been involved. For example, they participated in the American Revolution, when volunteers from Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Mexico fought the British in 1779 under the command of General Bernardo de Gálvez (1746–1786), and have continued to participate up to the present-day conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Currently, significant number of Puerto Ricans participate as members and work for the U.S. Armed Services, largely as National Guard members and civilian employees. The size of the overall military-related community in Puerto Rico is estimated to be 100,000 individuals. This includes retired personnel. Fort Buchanan has about 4,000 military and civilian personnel. In addition, approximately 17,000 people are members of the Puerto Rico Army and Air National Guards, or the U.S. Reserve forces. Puerto Rican soldiers have served in every US military conflict from World War I to the current military engagement known by the United States and its allies as the War against Terrorism.

The 65th Infantry Regiment, nicknamed "The Borinqueneers" from the original Taíno name of the island (Borinquen), is a Puerto Rican regiment of the United States Army. The regiments motto is Honor et Fidelitas, Latin for Honor and Fidelity. The 65th Infantry Regiment participated in World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and in what is known in the United States as the War on Terror.

The recorded military history of Puerto Rico encompasses the period from the 16th century, when Spanish conquistadores battled native Tainos in the rebellion of 1511, to the present employment of Puerto Ricans in the United States Armed Forces in the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Puerto Rico was part of the Spanish Empire for four centuries, when the Puerto Ricans defended themselves against invasions from the British, French, and Dutch. They fought alongside General Bernardo de Gálvez during the American Revolutionary War in the battles of Baton Rouge, Mobile, Pensacola and St. Louis. During the mid-19th century, Puerto Ricans residing in the United States fought in the American Civil War.[1]

The quest for Latin American independence from Spain spread to Puerto Rico, in the short lived revolution known as El Grito de Lares and culminating with the Intentona de Yauco. The island was invaded by the United States during the Spanish-American War. After the war ended, Spain officially ceded the island to the United States under the terms established in the Treaty of Paris of 1898. Puerto Rico became a United States territory and the "Porto Rico Regiment" (Puerto Rico's name was changed to Porto Rico) was established on the island.

Upon the outbreak of World War I, the U.S. Congress approved the Jones-Shafroth Act, which imposed United States citizenship (the Puerto Rican House of Delegates rejected US citizenship) with limitations upon Puerto Ricans and made them eligible for the military draft. As citizens of the United States, Puerto Ricans have participated in every major United States military engagement from World War I onward.

During World War II, Puerto Ricans participated in the Pacific and Atlantic theaters, not only as combatants, but also as commanders. It was during this conflict that Puerto Rican nurses were allowed to participate as members of the WAACs. The members of Puerto Rico's 65th Infantry Regiment distinguished themselves in combat during the Korean War and during the Vietnam War five Puerto Ricans were awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest military honor in the United States. Presently Puerto Ricans continue to serve in the military of the United States."

I met a few Puerto Rican Americans who didn't even know that they were US Citizens also so, they probably didn't know either that any person born in Puerto Rico or in the US for that matter are American Citizens... This is from:   http://www.american-citizenship.org/

"Generally, if you are born in the United States or born to U.S. citizens, you are born a U.S. citizen, unless you are born to a foreign diplomat. You are also considered a U.S. citizen at birth if you were born in Puerto Rico, Guam, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Your birth certificate will be your proof of your U.S. citizenship."

The history of Puerto Rico is complex. As the island enters its 113th year as a territory colony of the United States, the interdependencies between the U.S. and Puerto Rico weren’t, and never will be, a simple matter. It is a history of paradoxes and complications regarding political identity and basic human rights of self-government...

Take, for example, the 1917 Jones Act, an act of Congress that granted U.S. citizenship to all Puerto Ricans born on the island... (Important sidenote: Unknown to many, this is not a Constitutional act, but it would take a Supreme Court act to revoke the right.) The Jones Act, signed by President Woodrow Wilson on March 2, 1917, not only established U.S. citizenship for Puerto Ricans on the island, it also created a new form of government... As the following states (source: Library of Congress):

"The Jones Act separated the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative branches of Puerto Rican government, provided civil rights to the individual, and created a locally elected bicameral legislature. The two houses were a Senate consisting of 19 members and a 39-member House of Representatives. However, the Governor and the President of the United States had the power to veto any law passed by the legislature. Also, the United States Congress had the power to stop any action taken by the legislature in Puerto Rico. The U.S. maintained control over fiscal and economic matters and exercised authority over mail services, immigration, defense and other basic governmental matters.

There are so many contradictions in the act that many people are unaware about and we would like to make some clarifications:

Even though Puerto Ricans have the right to govern themselves, in the end the Governor of Puerto Rico and the U.S. government still have to power to veto and control any legislation on the island. That is a huge concession of power and rights... History has stated that Puerto Ricans did not request for citizenship at the time... In fact, the member of Congress representing the island in 1917, Luis Muñoz Rivera, questioned such imposition in late 1916, basically telling Congress that Puerto Ricans would prefer Puerto Rican citizenship...

The U.S. still has control over several basic government services that in any other form of government, would be under the jurisdiction of a local government... In the end, Puerto Ricans gained U.S. citizenship, but never gained much more, except for the right to freely travel with a U.S. passport and also freely live in any other part of the United States... History also suggests that the United States needed more men for WWI... After Wilson signed the Jones Act and after the U.S. entered World War I in 1917, military conscription was passed in June, 1917... This meant that as U.S. citizens, eligible Puerto Rican males were drafted into the armed forces... Over 2,000 Puerto Ricans were drafted to serve at the very beginning... In the end, it was estimated that 18,000 Puerto Ricans served in World War I... Most of them went to the Panama Canal, but some Puerto Ricans, like musician Rafael Hernández, proudly served on the Western Front... Puerto Ricans who were not eligible were sent to labor camps in the South...:eek::surprised::mad::sad:

The issue of U.S. citizenship for Puerto Ricans has always been a study in paradoxes... For example, a Puerto Rican-born individual who lives in the United States could vote in U.S. elections, like the ones for President, but that same person could not vote in those elections if living in Puerto Rico... The same goes for federal taxes...
If you are Puerto Rican-born and live in the U.S., you have to file a federal tax return... On the island, though, a Puerto Rican does not have to file a return...

In general, it is safe to say that most Puerto Ricans value the benefits that a U.S. citizenship has bestowed on them... However, Puerto Ricans still fall into a second tier of U.S. citizens, when compared to their fellow American citizens... Issues of civil and human rights (noted by the U.S. crackdown on Puerto Rican Nationalists who never truly had the right to free assembly after tensions arose in the 1940s and 1950s) are still valid concerns...

As the island begins to yet again explore the political direction it wants to take, the question of whether Puerto Ricans would trade in their U.S. citizenship for Puerto Rican citizenship will always be open for debate and dissection... Four generations have passed since the Jones Act became law, and for a certain group of U.S. citizens, full constitutional rights have yet to be achieved...

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 11:20
Good post Henry and I agree. The system is fubar. Thought many times about going to the VA but then I rethink it and say screw it.

Pretty sad that some30-40 years ago this same type of stuff was an issue with the VA with the Vietnam vets and low and behold, it still is. To work for the government does it state somewhere in your employment contract that you need to be a corrupt, thieving, conniving individual?

Our government is so screwed up. Like a self centered person, what they want, how they want it. Homeland Security, I willingly and happily flick them s.o.b's the bird. Saying they cannot release information as the article stated because it a matter of national security. This is another sneaky, behind your back do as they please arm of the bloated government. More Subway Uncle Sam, ask Jared!!
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 05-23-2014 16:49
I apologize in advance for the long post, but these things need to be said....

Why does the Obama administration treat our military veterans like human garbage?  Every year on Memorial Day and Veterans Day, Barack Obama, and I use the term very loosely.... "our" other politicians basically "go through the motions" and make these nice little speeches, but the truth about how they feel about our veterans can be seen in how our veterans are treated every single day.  At one point there were well over half a million veterans that had been waiting for at least 125 days to have their benefit claims processed.  Many of them ultimately had their claims sent back or denied just so a government employee somewhere could get a bigger bonus.  Meanwhile, conditions at VA facilities all over the country are absolutely abysmal, and many veterans have to wait more than half a year just to get an appointment at one of those facilities.  Once you start looking into how this country really treats military veterans, it becomes easier to understand why 22 military veterans commit suicide in America every single day.  Our vets have a higher rate of unemployment, a higher rate of poverty, a higher rate of homelessness, a higher rate of depression and a higher rate of divorce then the general population.  It is a crying shame.  One of the ways that any society is judged is by how it treats military veterans, and the truth is that America has failed miserably.  This has been particularly true since Barack Obama has been in the White House.

Here are 25 signs that military veterans are being treated like absolute trash under the Obama administration…

1. The average claim for veteran benefits takes more than half a year to be processed.
2. The Department of Veterans Affairs has a backlog of more than half a million overdue claims for benefits that are at least 125 days old.
3. In 2009, the number of veterans that had been waiting for more than a year to have their benefits approved was 11,000.  Today, that number has soared to 245,000.
4. Thousands upon thousands of military veterans that are waiting for their claims to be processed are dealing with absolutely horrible injuries…

Of those who have sought VA care:
• More than 1,600 of them lost a limb; many others lost fingers or toes.
• At least 156 are blind, and thousands of others have impaired vision.
• More than 177,000 have hearing loss, and more than 350,000 report tinnitus — noise or ringing in the ears.
• Thousands are disfigured, as many as 200 of them so badly that they may need face transplants. One-quarter of battlefield injuries requiring evacuation included wounds to the face or jaw, one study found.

5. At one VA hospital in Wisconsin, one military veteran with a broken jaw that was seeking treatment still had not had his jaw fixed after a month and a half.
6. Today, it takes military vets an average of seven months to get an appointment at a VA facility.
7. Many VA facilities are in absolutely horrific condition.  A while back, ABC News conducted an investigation of conditions at VA facilities across the United States.  What ABC News discovered was absolutely shocking.  The following are just a few of the things that they found during the course of their investigation…

*Bathrooms filthy with what appeared to be human excrement
*Dirty linens from some patients mixed in with clean supplies
*Examining tables that had dried blood and medications still on them
*Equipment used to sterilize surgical instruments that had broken down
*Some patients were forced to beg for food and water
*Veterans that were neglected so badly that they developed horrific bedsores and dangerous infections

8. As has been written about previously, applying for veteran benefits is extremely complicated, and VA employees are actually paid bonuses for denying claims…

The truth is that we have made it extremely difficult for our military veterans to claim the benefits that we have promised them.  Vets have to fill out an absurdly complicated 23 page application and if they make even one small mistake their applications can be stonewalled for years.  The U.S. Veterans Administration actually has a policy under which they pay large bonuses to employees that meet certain application processing goals.  This explains why approximately 70% of the claims submitted to the Veterans Administration are refused or sent back to be redone.  In fact, using the Freedom of Information Act, one local NBC station was able to learn that $250,000 was paid in bonuses to VA employees who work inside the Poff Federal Building in Roanoke, Virginia in just one year alone.

9. Large numbers of military veterans that legitimately should be getting benefits are having their claims denied by the federal government.  Just check out the following example from a Veterans Today article…
In one case, we found a veteran with 40 percent of his brain removed found to be healthy and employable.  He was also missing his right arm.  The physician who examined him over looked the arm and failed to note the cognitive degeneration the traumatic brain injury had caused.
10. Last year, more than 85,000 military veterans were treated for sexual abuse that they suffered while serving in the military.  40 percent of them were men.
11. According to a recent Defense Department survey, approximately 14,000 men in the U.S. military were sexually assaulted by other men during 2012.
12. According to the Washington Post, there is an epidemic of sexual assaults being committed by military recruiters.  The Pentagon is pledging to do something about the problem…

“The secretary has made it clear that we will spare no effort to rid our military of sexual abuse,” said George Little, the Pentagon press secretary. “The fact that there have been problems of sexual abuse during the recruiting process is simply intolerable.”

13. The number of active members of the U.S. military that are killing themselves now exceeds the number that are dying on the battlefield.
14. Since the beginning of the Iraq War, twice as many members of the Texas National Guard have killed themselves as have been killed in combat.
15. According to one recent study, 22 military veterans kill themselves in the United States every single day.
16. At this point, combat veterans account for about 20 percent of all suicides in the United States.
17. The unemployment rate for military veterans is significantly higher than for the population as a whole.  This is especially true for younger veterans.
18. On any given night, approximately 200,000 military veterans are homeless in the United States.
19. All over America, monuments that honor military veterans are crumbling and falling apart.  For much more on this, please see this article.
20. Under the Obama administration, many military veterans have had to pay to have their medals shipped to them.  For example, one soldier actually had to pay a 21 dollar shipping fee to get his Purple Heart.  The following is from the Huffington Post…

War comes with an incalculable human cost. And apparently a shipping fee of about $21.
Retired Sgt. Major Rob Dickerson says that’s the price he was forced to pay when his Purple Heart — the medal issued to soldiers wounded in action — arrived at his door, C.O.D.
Instead of being awarded the military honor in a formal ceremony, the vet with 29 years in the service was handed his award, and a shipping invoice, by a FedEx deliveryman outside his Sioux Falls, S.D., home.

21. In some areas of the country the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has been caught banning the words “God” and “Jesus” during funeral services for veterans.
22. Today, the federal government provides “end of life” literature to veterans that helps them to determine when their lives are “no longer worth living“…

“Your Life, Your Choices” presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political “push poll.” For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be “not worth living.”
The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to “shake the blues.” There is a section which provocatively asks, “Have you ever heard anyone say, ‘If I’m a vegetable, pull the plug’?” There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as “I can no longer contribute to my family’s well being,” “I am a severe financial burden on my family” and that the vet’s situation “causes severe emotional burden for my family.”When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

23. One study discovered that approximately one-third of all military veterans returning from Afghanistan and Iraq were officially determined to be mentally ill by government officials.
24. All over America, “mental illness” is being used as a reason to take guns away from military veterans.
25. The federal government is increasingly labeling military veterans as “potential domestic terrorists” if they express viewpoints that are critical of the government.  The following is from a recent article by John Whitehead…
Making matters worse, thanks to Operation Vigilant Eagle, a program launched by the Department of Homeland Security in 2009, military veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan are also being characterized as extremists and potential domestic terrorist threats because they may be “disgruntled, disillusioned or suffering from the psychological effects of war.” As a result, these servicemen and women–many of whom are decorated–are finding themselves under surveillance, threatened with incarceration or involuntary commitment, or arrested, all for daring to voice their concerns about the alarming state of our union and the erosion of our freedoms.
An important point to consider, however, is that the government is not merely targeting individuals who are voicing their discontent so much as it is locking up individuals trained in military warfare who are voicing feelings of discontent. Under the guise of mental-health treatment and with the complicity of government psychiatrists and  law-enforcement officials, these veterans are increasingly being portrayed as ticking time bombs in need of intervention.

Are you pissed off yet?

The way that the federal government is treating military veterans is absolutely shameful.

Like the bumper sticker I saw the other day "If you won't stand behind our troops, you're welcome to stand in front of them"
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 17:23
To answer your question Scott...

ABSOPHUCKENLUTELY SIR!!! And to comment regarding your post... EXCELLENT POST AS ALWAYS SCOTT!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 17:37
Hey Shawn,

Pretty soon the schlitz - and I'm not referring to the beer, is gonna hit the fan so to speak and history I hope will not repeat itself as it did when the Veterans revolted after both the Civil war and WW1... :eek::roll::sad::sad::sad:

And this is why like in Scott's post, the government is looking @ our Veterans as potential domestic terrorists for crying out loud!!!:yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::mad:

They unfortunately forget about our own history as a country that the original Patriots who fought to win independence from the British in our revolutionary war were also considered terrorists as well back then... And nowadays,the media as well as the government consider people who follow the status quo and are generally conformists are considered as being "Patriotic." How ironic.:mad::yell::mad::yell::mad::yell::twisted::yell::grin::smile::lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By makeithot (***) Date 07-06-2014 21:56
could not agree more, memorial day always brings a tear to my eye, even though I did not have the chance to serve. But not for lack of trying.It makes me want to spew when you hear and read stories of this kind. This problem is not just an american one we have the same sort of stories up here in Canada. In my opinion if you wish to go into politics it should be mandatory that you serve at least 5 yrs in the forces. At least then you may have some ideal about the human sacrifice made when you but your men and women in harms way.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-23-2014 19:23 Edited 05-23-2014 20:07
This is not a subject that I claim any expertise in, i.e., citizenship.

Maybe someone can enlighten me. I was under the impression that an individual serving in the armed forces could apply for citizenship and earn citizenship while on active duty. Again, I am not saying I am right or wrong. If someone is familiar with the requirements and the steps involved, please share them.

If in fact they can apply for citizenship while serving in the armed forces, is it not their decision to make, i.e.,  to apply for citizenship or maintain their current citizenship?

The issue of citizenship is just one facet of the problems faced by veterans. Change only happens when politicians see there is public support. Voting for a party that opposes fixing the problem, it's my way or no way, isn't going to solve anything.

As for the situation with the VA hospitals, we, the American public, have been warned by many people that there would be a massive increase in the demand for VA services. One factor is the increase in aging baby boomers that served and now need services simply because of old age. Then there is the decades long wars we have fought in the Middle East and Asia. Yet, when confronted with the facts, a certain party has consistently fought increases needed to finance programs needed to meet the increased demands on a system that is grossly underfunded. This has been the case for several decades, it is not a new problem.

My recommendation would be to support those individuals and party that votes to support the budgets needed to pay for the programs. Don't vote for the party or individuals that have consistently failed to support the budgets needed to pay for the programs needed. One cannot support the Tea Party initiatives and turn around and complain the government isn't doing enough to help veterans, repair highways, and bridges, etc.

I am not advocating throwing money at the problem. There is no doubt the money has to be spent wisely. Hospital administration must be held accountable. From what I've heard on the evening news, it seems there are individuals that need to be held accountable and where justified, prosecuted for fraud. I'm talking about administrators that cooked the books and had secret accountings of appointment schedules to qualify for a larger bonus. That's fraud in my opinion.

I believe the system needs fixing. It will take more that using one person as a scrape goat. The problems are systemic. If you are having engine trouble with your car, do you seek the advice of a mechanic or a plumber? Maybe this administration needs to determine what qualifications are needed to overhaul the current VA system. Are the qualifications of being an army general the appropriate qualifications for such a job?

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-23-2014 19:36
Can you?   It can and has happened.

Is it easy... NO no no no no !

Gaining U.S. Citizenship is criminally difficult unless you are a ....Well even the Presidents relatives are having problems.

Immigration will not get fixed until citizenship gets fixed...

Those non citizen vet issues won't get fixed until citizenship gets fixed.

its too hard,,, and that makes me so sad...
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-24-2014 08:09
I agree wholeheartedly Lawrence.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-24-2014 08:08
I certainly think that it can't do any harm to bring in some outside help from the private sector and figure out how to implement an effective QMS (Quality Management System) that really works elsewhere and implement it ASAP!

There's also too much pressure on the VA's system to handle all of the Veterans currently in need of proper care so, it might be an idea to have certain groups of Veterans seek treatment from the private sector hospitals and Doctors in order to help in order to alleviate some of the pressure immediately and then implement a far reaching system that is a co-operative partnership between the private sector insurance sector, private sector hospitals, doctors and other health care providers etc...

I don't pretend to be an expert of healthcare but I have been in both systems that should have more co-operation with each other and the only way this can be fixed is to sraer over with a proper mix of what the current VA components has available that works and certain aspects of the private sector such as I mentioned above so that they, we or whoever can start getting the systems to work as they were intended to...

How do you pay for something so radical and probably really expensive? By not simply throwing more money to fix it and instead, immediately get rid of what doesn't work...
And replace it with a public private cooperative bundle that will more effectively use the monies necessary to operate it as lean and efficient as possible, and enhanced with continuous improvement that really works and will eventually become a system that we as Americans can be proud of...

But make no mistake about it... The private sector needs to be brought in as a partner in relieving the intensive pressure by immediately augmenting the VA system as an alternative for providing treatment until a new system can be eventually built to replace the current one so that our Veterans who at the very least, deserve so much better than what is presently offered to them for their service, and can finally be proud of a system that really works!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-24-2014 16:48
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
Remember the Bonus Marchers!
Embarrassingly so, we do not have a stellar history of fulfilling promises to combat veterans.
Doug Mac engineered the invasion with tanks and cavalry.
I read once years ago that George Patton ordered the troops to "fix bayonets"...
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 05-27-2014 13:43
Just shut down all VA hospitals & clinics and have the Vets go to civilian hospitals & clinics. Issue each Vet upon discharge; a medical, vision & dental card (kinda like the welfare/debit cards used at Walmarts) and then allow the Vet to choose their very best care giver. Have the hospital & clinics reimbursed like with private insurance except the department of veteran services writes the check.
If the medical personnell in the VA system are any good have them move into private practice. Just a thought ~ Semper Fi.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-28-2014 05:38 Edited 05-28-2014 05:42
That would probably be a good part of the optimal solution but, we all know how that works!
Affordable housing is another important aspect that needs much improvement because, sure there are a few Veterans that have really complicated mental and emotional issues that aren't always dealt with in the proper manner... But, I cannot believe that all of the homeless Veterans are without a roof over their heads because of their own doing!

Employment is another aspect that really needs to be addressed instead of the symbolic self-touting that most of the fortune 500 companies in advertising how they will hire x amount of Veterans this year like "WallyWorld" boasts all the time... I could go on and on but, I got to stop here because of my doctor's appointment later this morning...

So I'll end by saying how I feel... EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF OUR VETERANS DESERVE SOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS!!!
WE ALL NEED TO SHOW THEM THAT WE REALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR WELL BEING!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-28-2014 08:07
It's not a lack of concern from "We the People".
The disrespect and shunning comes from "Them the Government".
From their perspective, a Soldier that has been discharged from service is no more than a tool to them that will never be used again and is left to rust.
Parent - By SCOTTN (***) Date 05-28-2014 18:18
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-28-2014 21:38
To quote from Scott's article:

"What you are about to read should make you very angry.  The abuse, neglect and outright disrespect that military vets receive from their own government is absolutely shocking.  We owe these men and women a great debt for the service that they have performed for our nation, but instead the federal government kicks them to the curb and treats them with no honor whatsoever.  The way a nation treats military vets says a lot about the character of that nation, and right now the way that America treats veterans says that we have the character of a steaming pile of manure."

That's what I meant.:surprised::grin::twisted::wink::cool:

respectfully,
Henry
- - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-29-2014 12:12
Sadly there are so many instances where our Veterans are neglected and it often ends in a bad way.

Very recently in Tulsa OK there was a 22 year old man who had some mental issues after returning home and he could not get help. It ended with him shooting from his apartment building in a standoff with police and he was shot and killed.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Officer-involved-in-shooting-identified/O0UUjmVeFkuwb2s9N_MxOg.cspx

Don't even get me going about Veterans Affairs!!! All I will say is it is no wonder at all why they have the "No Weapons Allowed" signs every 2 feet in all of there facility's the way they treat our Veterans!!!! :mad: :mad: :cry:

jrw159
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 05-30-2014 15:09
Having served for 10 years and receiving a 25% disability (had a bad day once) I can say for a fact that the VA's system is broken.  It's rife with bureaucratic incompetence and inept management at all levels. Whenever I go to the VA Hospital near me I'm known as "That Guy".  If I feel I'm not getting the service that should be provided I'm on the phone to my Congressman or Senator.  I wish there was a way to get other vet's to do this because it works.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-30-2014 16:24
I could write a book full of stories about having to fight with the VA to get my Father the care he needed and we still have to keep pushing to keep it going.

It makes me sick to think of the ones that need mental help and can not get it on time or at all.

http://www.katv.com/story/25637023/problems-with-va-reported-in-eastern-oklahoma

jrw159
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 05-30-2014 17:22
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 06-04-2014 03:04 Edited 06-04-2014 03:08
This is a post on another site several people liked so I will share it here, I feel it is appropriate. I was being accused of misunderstanding the meaning of Memorial Day by a person whilst making my yearly plea to others about helping active service members.  I personally believe my brothers in the grave would honor my attitude but the so called living seem to be resistant.

I fully understand the significance of each holiday and I disagree with the common agreement of each country to roll Armistice day into a active service veteran holiday. None the less, I see so many go out and enjoy the day off without every giving a single freaking flip as to why they had it. My only point was simply while you and those you know may pause and give thought to those men and women lost to the wages of war....how many times do you think of your typical soldier in day to day life? I took the time to point out I can do NOTHING for the dead other then pause and remember them, offer my sympathy for their loss. For the living and breathing I can do small things that mean a LOT to them....I am just asking that people do so...when the opportunity arises, believe me it is a large thing to that soldier....it helps prop up a much abused heart and soul. They could use that recognition more then once a ****ing year.

And as far as me not really knowing what Memorial Day is, I have 17 dead servicemen in my close family, all but one from combat operations, all of them volunteers.

Have a good day.

BTW as long as it is being discussed so to speak. The VA in most parts of the country is doing a piss poor job taking care of our vets. No I am not talking about the stupid bs in the news....they have been doing a very mediocre job way before that. Remember this when you vote, there is some whip cracking that really needs to be addressed including some funding issues. Like most Fed entities, they waste more then they make use of....but they are lethargic and sickeningly slow in dealing with out vets. I have met some nice folks in the VA but I feel their hands are very tied by stupid bureaucracy.

Tommy
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 06-04-2014 11:30
Tommy,

Every time I walk by anyone in the military, I always thank them for what they do, and say, "God bless you".  That's the very least I can do.  I think it's extremely disrespectful to them and to their purpose, to simply walk by them and say absolutely nothing.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-04-2014 13:58 Edited 06-04-2014 14:00
I'm the same way Scott...
If I see them in "Wallyworld" or any other brick & mortar and they're in line behind me, I get their attention and offer my place for them which is the least I can do also...
One time @ Wallyworld, this one person in line got upset when I let one of our brothers get in front of me... Well, I didn't even have to say anything because everybody else stared the puke down so intensely that I believe he ended up playing handball on the sidewalk curb.:eek::surprised::twisted::roll::smile::grin::lol::yell::lol::yell::lol::wink::cool:

They deserve better! Btw, Thanks TOMMY! I do appreciate what you posted also! Hoorah!!! Semper Fidelis!

Respectfully,
Henry
- - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 06-04-2014 03:14
BTW Henry

Lots of love for your posts.....our brothers are being F%^^%&**&K over.
Parent - - By SCOTTN (***) Date 07-22-2014 16:26
The 2014 United States elections will be held on Tuesday, November 4, 2014. During this midterm election year, all 435 seats in the United States House of Representatives and 33 of the 100 seats in the United States Senate will be contested in this election, so PLEASE get out and vote.  A movement has been started by our armed forces to get out the vote in 2014. They are organizing themselves, but this can also be done by all of us.  The President, the Commander in Chief, has made the Rules of Engagement (ROE) so difficult, that our troops are often killed before they can even get permission to fight. Nothing has been done to stop our troops from being murdered by the Afghanis they are training, either. Now, the President wants the US to sign on to the UN's International Criminal Court (ICC), which would allow the UN's ICC to arrest and try US troops for War Crimes, without the legal protections guaranteed under US Law, and from which there is no appeal. The President, with his Democratic control of the Senate, has nearly all the  power.  If the Non-Establishment Republicans, and Conservatives, can take back the Senate in 2014, our troops can hopefully once again be protected from unnecessary danger.  Interestingly enough, when Bush was President you heard about the military deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan almost daily.  With Obama in the White House, the mainstream media has been strangely quiet.  More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months.  This is more than the combined total of the 'five years before that'. Many have died since August, 2013.  During the last six month, over 50 additional NATO and US servicemen have been murdered: inside jobs by  those who are hired to be a "force for good in Afghanistan."  The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half-staff for the Sikhs that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president.  It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 5 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight  of our men and women in uniform.  But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president's party. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November 2014 mid-term election, if they all respond.  The one million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls.  It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turnout to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 07-23-2014 03:10
I just got back home.....God Bless ya Scott and BUMP!!!!!!!!
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