AWS Weld Access

Date 04-10-2015 01:56 Edited 04-10-2015 02:00

Ok, going to be quick but I have a dilemma. I've been looking thru the code trying to see if there is anything that addresses access to weld areas or welds.

Ok, I know you submarine guys and pipe guys welding thru the gap on the pipe will be laughing but here is my issue. A giant nut 1/4" or less off of a large plate, beveled at 45 degrees for a CJP weld. The nut cannot be removed. To the right of this nut, another nut, about two inches between them. The weld joint is 6 inches long, process, SMAW. Material 1" thick so large bevel height to fill in. Putting the rod in to weld it properly, laughable. Cleaning the weld, hilarious. Improper rod angle galore and the desktop pilot after looking at pictures says, "no issues here". One nut on another plate is smack in the middle of this 6" area to be welded and the nuts are 3-3/8".

I along with the PM are trying to justify our complaints with some sort of documentation. The only thing I have found so far is 5.17.1, AWS D1.1, 2004. The other little tidbit, UT and MT inspections. Told the guy I might as well leave my hood in the truck. I know there are tight spots, have dealt with them many times before but these are in the realm of ridiculous. Ok, I'll attach a picture of one that needs to be repaired for a crack. Crack runs all the way across the weld, very deep. I told them I could give it a go but could not guarantee that it would be picture perfect. I guess I'm also trying to make sure I'm not being a priss!! LOL!!

Weld needs to be built up the 45, brought out flush and a 1/2" reinforcing weld put on. I think I'm having a problem understanding how to bring it out flush with the nut against the weld joint....... :eek:

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 04:04

No comment.

BB

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 04:18

I will take that as a "it's not just me" confirmation!! Bbbbwwaaaaahahaha!!!! :lol:

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 04:38

A man has got to know his limitations. (name that movie)

BB

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 12:15

Dirty Harry.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 12:28

I should have known that one. I kept repeating it over and over in my head just like he said it in the movie but could not remember who's voice! Had to cheat and look on the interweb!! Got the movie at home, lol!!

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 12:30

Right character, wrong movie. Magnum Force with Hal Holbrook and David Soul along with Clint Eastwood.

Dirty Harry phrase was 'You gotta ask yourself, Do I feel lucky? Well...do you punk?" after he extolled the virtues of his 44 mag and asked if the person really knew how many rounds were fired during the altercation.

BB

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-10-2015 14:04

Technically part of the "Dirty Harry" series of movies, lol!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-11-2015 01:21

Wait a minute Shawn!

Are you talking about the weld with the oxidation shown above the set of nuts on the left side of the image opposite from the #'s 4 which is shown on the right side of the image? The left side where it's showing the wider space between the nuts and the joint compared to the other nut/bolt combo's on the right side, or am I missing something?

Respectfully,
Henry

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-12-2015 11:24

Henry, yes, to the top left is one EXCEPT currently it is missing the 1" thick by 6" wide piece of metal in that position that is also 20' long. The distance between the nut and existing steel on that location is a little over an inch, maybe an inch and a half. At number 4 straight down(looking down) there is a weld behind those nuts, cjp that needs to be ground out completely and rewelded. Nuts cannot come off as you can see.

I give inspectors the benefit of the doubt and don't like to give them a hard time but this guy stood around all day telling us how he thought the tower should be torn down and rebuilt due to his and another inspectors findings. After I tell him you can't weld behind the nut in number 4 and deposit sound weld metal and a number of similar issues he later tells the owner of the tower that "this welder is probably not the welder you want on this job".

I'm assuming it's because of this nut situation. I'm not the right welder, I think they didn't pick the right F***in engineer. Don't blame me for a moronic design from a chair.

One of those jobs where I think it may be better just to walk away.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 04-12-2015 11:56

Okay, Shawn,

Think Outside The Box. You can remove the nut. That is no problem. The problem with that part would be how to re-anchor in that location after the other welding was completed. You may be able to use a coupler to extend the threaded anchor after all welding was complete and then use spacers to get the bearing surface up so that new nuts would bear on it though you are still going to deal with how to turn them in order to tighten them.

Just ignore the inspector. He sounds like a know it all that is trying to impress himself with himself. If he were any good he would keep his mouth shut because his opinion is not at all important. His job is to observe and report how the professional welder completed the engineer's project.

Oh, and in the original Dirty Harry, he would conclude his phrase, after looking into the perps eyes for a few seconds with "Go ahead...make my day."

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 04-12-2015 12:10

I think the only place you will find good guidelines for bolting and welding access is in AISC Construction Manual. I'll have to look up the section.

D1.1 Clause 5.26 does have a couple of things to say about inaccessible areas for correction that may help.

Brent

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-13-2015 01:58

They sell split nuts but that was the issue we came across, how much would we need to turn it, it's a crap shoot. Cut them off and split nuts don't work then your tower is unsecure in tornado country. Could always pray that He drops one right on top of the site for a minute or two then lets it disappear.

Once I'm off this other job in this area and it has been inspected I've got a little surprise for the inspector. :wink:

Dirty Harry, wish I brought my dvd's with me!

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-12-2015 11:33

Impractical but probably the cheapest and easiest fix that could be thought of I guess. We're on hold on that one and from the sounds of it they might be looking for a guy who is willing to stick a welding rod behind the nut without being able to see anything and wiggle it around until it's full.

The one at number 4 actually has to have the cjp weld ground out completely, somehow with the nut in the way. They kept saying die grinder but I don't see it.

By Dualie

Date 04-12-2015 18:48

with enough time and money you could definitely grind that weld out with women super long burrs in strait shaft die grinders. But your still stuck having to weld it back up.

every now and again I have to shake a clients hand and tell them "I don't think I'm the man for this job. I do wish you luck though" and walk away.

Only once has a handshake been followed with "I'll see you in court" though

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 04-13-2015 01:50

That's what I told them Dualie, time and materials on grinding it out. Any burr bits, tools I need will be billed direct. Welding? That's the issue, getting behind it, cleaning it. It's funny you said that about "I don't think I'm the man for this job" because the inspector after talking like our buddies out there and saying himself many times, "they should just tear it down and rebuilt it" turned his knife around and got me in the back by telling the owner, "I don't think this is the right welder for this job".

So, personally after that comment the inspector can go play hide and go f*** himself and me, probably do as you said, walk away.