I suppose I am not going to make many friends with this post but I am going to speak my mind.
So, one of our most respected and considerate forum participants has a sit down chit chat with the assumed powers that be at AWS wherein nothing is decided, nothing resolved, nothing guaranteed, and even nothing proposed or suggested, indicating of course they are moving ahead as scheduled, and the criticism is silenced.
I'm impressed. Well done.
Leads me to believe that those who thought that, subsequent to a period of 'hissyfits', all those boisterous critical members would come sneakin back in 'hat in hand' as if nothing were different, to fork over what is due ceasar, were correct after all.
Having said this, if indeed the voices are heard and some palatable compromise is reached I will be more than willing to extend my apology to whomever. Especially if that which is closed to non members is the usual networking garbage like twitter feeds, facebook links, endless and annoying requests for contact information, etc. You know, all of the intrusive stuff that comes with geeked up social networking websites.
Jeff
Why should we continue to complain at this point? I'm grateful that Lawrence was able to go meet with them.
Will the continuing of complaints change anything if the face to face meeting didn't do any good?(maybe it did, maybe it didn't) I see it as fruitless to complain at this point, minds seem to have been made, nothing that any of us complaining about is going to change the outcome. It's their ball, and if they want to take it and go home, they can, after all it's their ball.
I think we need to sit back and see what happens next...if we don't like it after it all shakes out, we can start our own forum where we can help "non-members" and "whosoever comes" and we can share our knowledge from the school of hard knocks just like old times.
John,
is correct
"we can start our own forum where we can help "non-members" and "whosoever comes" and we can share our knowledge from the school of hard knocks just like old times."
not that much $$$$$$
probably even get a sponsor or two
can get code like this format open source for free
only thing really missing is all the past posts here
but reality is it is the poster's intellectual property
if that is what it comes too so be it
just a thought
sincerely,
Kent
btw
ask Kaye at Bill's welding
good tax write off for her
and GREAT marketing
just IMHO
sincerely,
Kent
I would be glad to get a domain purchased (Only Costs about $25.00 a year).
This software is free and hosting can be done for <$30.00 per month.
Many others exist, when I get done with this message I will make one up real quick.
Here is abut 10 minutes of "setup" time. If a group decided they wanted to get another forum going, I would be glad to help however I think since this forum is still working, and nothing has actually "happened" yet it may not be needed.
The site name is one I already had and other are still available. Understand I am by no means an expert in online forums etc.. but have quite a few years as a hack with websites. But my services are here.
http://weldertraining.org/forum/
Gerald, that's awesome.
Let me know if you need help with this. I am very experienced in forum administration and web design, and would be happy to help with this. I am very sad to hear the forum is headed in the direction that it is, especially considering the amount of advice and direction that helped get me where I am today from alot of the great users still here today.
I appreciate your time on the phone earlier and look forward to working with you if it comes to that.
One of the more important skills this old man has learned over the years "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".
I can be the meanest SOB on the face of the earth when it is necessary, but I can also be the most understanding and helpful when someone needs a nudge or assistance. I come to work every day knowing that no one is pleased to see me. Management knows I will probably reject something they need to ship. Production manager knows I will probably reject something he needs to send to paint. The welders know I am just not going to let any bad welds past me. But we are all still get along and I help anyone who asks, even if I have to stay late or come in during night shift.
Tracker, I'm not sure if I want to headhunt you to work for me, or quit and go to work for you :)
I have more to say about this, but am not going to bother with trying to express myself from a smart phone.
I'll say this; Decisions can be unmade and often are. Always by virtue of persuasion. Making a strong case to the decision makers is the best persuasion. Failure driven change is the worst persuasion.
Sniveling (and I've done my share) doesn't even make the list.
I don't intend to sit and wait... We can do a bit more than that I think.
"I don't intend to sit and wait... We can do a bit more than that I think. "-L
I'm all ears, what do you propose?
By PlasmaHead2
Date 07-30-2016 00:26
Edited 07-30-2016 00:29
If the core group of this forum created another forum, I'd pay you guys my AWS dues and leave the AWS.
If someone printed some of the better threads and stuffed them in a magazine like the welding journal, I'd have one of the first subscriptions.
-Clif
js,
I will relate this to how
I would expect things on the aws side
Alfred and his boss did NOT
have to meet with Lawrence
if it was myself and already had set in stone what was next
never meet with anyone, just adding a little time
and wasting time with a meeting
the short term goodwill
will be overwhelmed by the fallout
of the decision
that is basic marketing 101
just a thought
sincerely,
Kent
Rocking the boat further while the captain and first mate are trying to evaluate the storms winds, waves, and overall overwhelming odds against the ship's integrity, cargo value, and general ability to fully utilize the crews abilities and willingness to pitch in the fight is not the way to save the ship.
While crisis moments need to come and go quickly, with the administrative system of leadership involved by AWS we need to give them time for evaluation, meetings, and decision making. This is not a life or death (outside our beloved forum) situation.
Some have sent emails. Many have made their case on this forum and the Beta site. One, that I know of, has had a face to face for which I applaud one and all.
In politics they say one letter represents so many other constituents, one phone call this many, and personal visits are way up there. When Lawrence went and made time in his schedule, and they did likewise and respected his opinion and time, they all showed an interest in our ideas, opinions, and position.
Many of our National leaders in this great society cannot make one or two day decisions without some major consulting and evaluating. This will not happen over night.
GIVE THEM SOME TIME AND BE PATIENT!! We will know soon enough if they are just going to run roughshod over us or truly have very good reasons for their current direction.
I don't care if we are talking about a family unit, church family, civil government, corporation or what, there has to be a chain of command with guidelines on how decisions are made. There also has to be trust that the best possible research and gathering of facts and information went into the process. Trying to micro manage every decision of elected officials or family leadership is sure to sink the ship and destroy everything previously worked for.
We made our case, and you have seen my opinion and how I attempted to have the numbers of non-members sway the decision.
We have not actually seen the total forum format yet. We may disagree with some things. But in no organization will you ever have 100% agreement and oneness of every detail, doctrine, action, interpretation, and opinion. If you don't like the direction the captain is taking the ship, mutiny is not the first course of action. Shooting the president is not the first course of action. There are ways to appeal to authority and take that as far as can be.
Please, let's give them some room. That doesn't mean we sit back and do nothing for a couple of weeks. At that point one would be totally lost when the course change happens.
Private calls, emails, to others here, AWS staff, Alfred, and just putting your own thoughts collectively, organized, factually, down for a calm presentation if the need arises.
Brent